Why does my phyto keep crashing?

[Joe31415]

Over the past few months I've cultured a few dozen batches of phyto with mixed success. The majority of them seem to crash within a few days. Around day 3, the culture will be bright, neon green. If I don't split it then, it'll crash within 24 hours, every time. I've never made it a full week, I've never had it get dark green/dense.
I started with a kit from Poseidon's Reef. Killed all of it. I bought more phyto from him and killed that. I then bought some phyto and F2 from Mercer of Montana, killed that too. Beyond trying phyto and fertilizer from two different places, I've also tried dimming the lights on the Poseidon's Reef jars, thinking they might be creating too much heat. I've switched to a clear plastic container and used a 5000k LED light. I've done everything I can think of and always end up with identical results. Neon Green after a few days, yellow/dead the next morning.
I know the 'answer' is to harvest/spit it on day 3, but that doesn't explain why I can't get it to run longer or get darker.

The only variable I haven't played with is some type of sanitation issue. However, I sanitize everything as well as I possibly can with rubbing alcohol (and/or using disposable plastic bags to line the jars with). If it is a sanitation issue, there's not much more I can do about that.

Here's a thread I started back in February. This was before I made some of these changes and I'm still getting *exactly* the same results.

 

[Tankkeepers]

OK without alot of testing I can not tell you why your losing yours


But what worked for me back in the day was

4 10 gallon tanks side by side with 4 48 inch shop lights t8 duel fixture from home depot hung 8 inches above the tanks with 5000k plant grow bulbs from the hydroponics store
And a 18 inch air stone ran in the back of the tank to create a rolling effect you want constaint and fast as if it settles that's bad

Stir with hand once a week to keep it all suspended

I used Scott's all purpose fertilizer from menards I do not remember the dosing

Each tank could run for a month before needing spit and would be dance dark green

No lid but take a glass folding lid and put it over the back half with the light over the front that way the bubbles pup on the glass and the light has 0 to penitrate thus direct

 

[Tankkeepers]

Just clean your hands with hot water no soap before your good and don't handel chicken or eggs on the same day caminela is really bad and can get into them also my salinity was at 1.018 for the batches pods brine mysis etc

 

[Tankkeepers]

Oh they were on a 12 hour schedule

 

[G Santana]

I've been fortunate, I use 2 liter soda bottles clean them well with alcohol to include lid and the rigid tubing then I rinse. I use Montana's phyto and fertilizer.
I have only lost 1 batch, it turned at about day 3, every other batch has been money for months.

I don't use any special precautions and I do everything in my basement, nothing exceedingly clean about this place lol.

Keep at it, clean hands and bottles is all it takes.

 

[JGT]

I don’t do any sterilization. Half Phyto, half fsw at around 1.019/20. 60 watt incandescent bulb. 16 hours on 8 off. Do about 3 ml of F2 per gallon. Air pump with a rolling boil and will hand stir couple times a day with an acrylic rod. Go 8-9 days between harvests. Halve the culture and repeat.

 

[Joe31415]

4 10 gallon tanks side by side with 4 48 inch shop lights t8 duel fixture from home depot hung 8 inches above the tanks with 5000k plant grow bulbs from the hydroponics store
And a 18 inch air stone ran in the back of the tank to create a rolling effect you want constaint and fast as if it settles that's bad

Stir with hand once a week to keep it all suspended

My setup isn't that large, but otherwise similar. It has nearly the full power of the air pump being pushed into it, so it's very much rolling. I also have it on a magnetic stirrer that I turn on a few times a day to kick up anything that's may have settled.

Just clean your hands with hot water no soap before your good and don't handel chicken or eggs on the same day caminela is really bad and can get into them also my salinity was at 1.018 for the batches pods brine mysis etc

Yup, everything is cleaned, nothing that hasn't been cleaned with rubbing alcohol touches anything the phyto will be in contact with. Salinity is started at 1.019, but may rise a bit as water evaporates.

Oh they were on a 12 hour schedule

I'm 16 on, 8 off.

I've been fortunate, I use 2 liter soda bottles clean them well with alcohol to include lid and the rigid tubing then I rinse. I use Montana's phyto and fertilizer.

That bottle on the right, mine gets almost to that point, then dies within 24 hours.

Do about 3 ml of F2 per gallon

I'm just a hair higher than that as the directions that came with my F2 said 1ml/L.

The only other thing I can think of is to try a grow light and see if that makes any difference, which I'm guessing it won't. But for a few bucks it's probably worth a shot.
I was thinking about picking up a Tunze submersible fuge light, but that seems like overkill (and I don't know how much heat they give off).

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Over the past few months I've cultured a few dozen batches of phyto with mixed success. The majority of them seem to crash within a few days. Around day 3, the culture will be bright, neon green. If I don't split it then, it'll crash within 24 hours, every time. I've never made it a full week, I've never had it get dark green/dense.
I started with a kit from Poseidon's Reef. Killed all of it. I bought more phyto from him and killed that. I then bought some phyto and F2 from Mercer of Montana, killed that too. Beyond trying phyto and fertilizer from two different places, I've also tried dimming the lights on the Poseidon's Reef jars, thinking they might be creating too much heat. I've switched to a clear plastic container and used a 5000k LED light. I've done everything I can think of and always end up with identical results. Neon Green after a few days, yellow/dead the next morning.
I know the 'answer' is to harvest/spit it on day 3, but that doesn't explain why I can't get it to run longer or get darker.

The only variable I haven't played with is some type of sanitation issue. However, I sanitize everything as well as I possibly can with rubbing alcohol (and/or using disposable plastic bags to line the jars with). If it is a sanitation issue, there's not much more I can do about that.

Here's a thread I started back in February. This was before I made some of these changes and I'm still getting *exactly* the same results.

I would look to sanitation being your issue.

I would recommend 70% rubbing alcohol if that isnt what you are already using. It has more water in it than say 90% so it will lay on the surface longer before evaporating, killing more things. Also, its very important that the rubbing alcohol has completely evaporated. Any leftover will kill phyto.

You could also soak all the equipment in a bleach solution for approx 15mins. Rinse and completely dry before using. If you are going to hand dry always use clean paper towels. Other towels could have microbes on them. Also, when making your bleach solution use cold water. Hot water will render the bleach useless.

Have you considered your water source being the issue? If any of the equipment you use to mix and test the saltwater for phyto has also been used for other things contamination could be getting in. I use completely different equipment for making my phyto water. Different bucket, different powerhead, different heater, ect. Its for phyto use only. Even down to the pipette i use for testing the salinity.

Otherwise it sounds like you are doing things correct. I also use the poseiden reef jars. I do not use the bags though, just the jars. I use 500ml phyto, 2.5L fresh saltwater mixed to approx 1.020 and 2ml F2 fertilizer. It is aerated 24hrs and lit 16hrs. I usually harvest in 8-10 days.

Im not sure if youre on instagram but i have a whole video series there on my culture methods that you might find helpful. They are under my videos section. You can find me at doubleadeejay.

You might also find this helpful.....

Just a couple of fellas talking bout phytoplankton

As the title says….maybe you’ll find it helpful :)

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Joe31415]

I would recommend 70% rubbing alcohol if that isnt what you are already using. It has more water in it than say 90% so it will lay on the surface longer before evaporating, killing more things. Also, its very important that the rubbing alcohol has completely evaporated. Any leftover will kill phyto.

That's what I'm using, and use quite a bit of it. After wiping everything down, I usually have to leave it alone for a good half hour before it's all evaporated.

Have you considered your water source being the issue? If any of the equipment you use to mix and test the saltwater for phyto has also been used for other things contamination could be getting in. I use completely different equipment for making my phyto water. Different bucket, different powerhead, different heater, ect. Its for phyto use only. Even down to the pipette i use for testing the salinity.

The only thing this has in common with the rest of the tanks is the salinity probe. While I'm not ruling that out, I'm thinking it's unlikely. It's used to test the water in my new salt water bucket (which could very well harbor something) and very occasionally used to test the salinity in a tank (less than once a week). It's rinsed with RODI after every single use and spends the majority of it's life sitting in a table, fully dried out. Again, could be the issue...it just doesn't seem likely. Also, when I mix up water for phyto, I make brand new RODI, pumped into it's own, properly cleaned container and mix it up in there.
There is the possibility of some bacteria in my water supply that gets through the filters or RODI that still sitting in the line between the filter and the outlet having some sort of bloom between uses (though I've never seen any pink staining in the clear tube, which is what I'd expect if that was the case).

Otherwise it sounds like you are doing things correct. I also use the poseiden reef jars. I do not use the bags though, just the jars. I use 500ml phyto, 2.5L fresh saltwater mixed to approx 1.020 and 2ml F2 fertilizer. It is aerated 24hrs and lit 16hrs. I usually harvest in 8-10 days.

That's pretty close to what I do except I get 2-3 days of it getting increasingly neon green, then it dies.

Im not sure if youre on instagram

I am not.

I would look to sanitation being your issue.

That's my concern. I'm willing to keep trying other things. But there's only so much sanitizing I can do, or rather that I'm willing to do, and I feel like I'm doing it.
With how many people seem to make this work with no real complaints about the difficulty or complexity, I feel like I'm missing something easy.

Regarding the bleach, that's a good example of an extra level of complexity I'm not interested in getting into. I've ruined enough clothes over the years bleaching things (I'm in the food industry). If I can avoid screwing around trying to bleach a bunch of containers and lids and tubes etc, every week or two, I'd prefer that. Besides, the smell of bleach (even if it's just stuck on my hands) tends to give me a headache.

 

[SuthernReefer]

Same issue here. Every 3 days mine crashes. Also using Poseidon kit. 3 culture's in a row now.

Culture is still light green, but it's a shade lighter than yesterday. And I know tomorrow it'll be gone. Can I use what I have and split it now to keep culture going?

 

[djf91]

My cultures always failed quickly when I was growing it in my fish room under LED lighting. When I moved the cultures outside to a window in my garage (natural sunlight) they became bullet proof. I can’t crash a culture now if I tried. I don’t sterilize at all now. 5 gallon clear jug + aeration + F/2 (silica free). Are you trying to grow Nannochloropsis? Do you have a window that gets sunlight you could try growing it in?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I'm thinking your light is too strong, or too close to your culture. Move the light way back next time, see if that helps. Phytoplankton doesn't need strong light at all, dim lighting works.

 

[SuthernReefer]

My cultures always failed quickly when I was growing it in my fish room under LED lighting. When I moved the cultures outside to a window in my garage (natural sunlight) they became bullet proof. I can’t crash a culture now if I tried. I don’t sterilize at all now. 5 gallon clear jug + aeration + F/2 (silica free). Are you trying to grow Nannochloropsis? Do you have a window that gets sunlight you could try growing it in?

Nanno, yes. It's in my kitchen that receives a lot of natural sunlight, but it's not in direct sunlight

 

[SuthernReefer]

I'm thinking your light is too strong, or too close to your culture. Move the light way back next time, see if that helps. Phytoplankton doesn't need strong light at all, dim lighting works.

You think? I keep the lights on 50% which is what Poseidon recommends. I'll try lowering it a bit.

would it be worth trying to split it now Hope's of extending the culture?

 

[djf91]

Nanno, yes. It's in my kitchen that receives a lot of natural sunlight, but it's not in direct sunlight

I would split it. Try growing a culture in direct sunlight, with no additional light.

 

[68 Stang]

Joe, did you ever figure this out? I’m having the exact same problem and follow your steps in production to a tee. last year at my old house i grew phyto culture after culture with the same light and same disinfectant process. I’m thinking maybe my 100 gallon salt container for my reef tank that I pull to mix with RODI may have some sort of bacteria in it that is killing my batches of phytoplankton?