Why is TM Plus-NP crashing my tank ???

CactusReefer

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Brief history on this tank. It started life in a 10g standard tank, ran about 8 months prior to moving into an 18" cube with sump.

Fiji 22.4 with the Fiji 12 sump I'm running a Reef-octo 110SSS skimmer with a 4" media cup filled with Fluval Pre filter media that gets rinsed 2x a week . I do partial water change's every Sunday the tank ran this entire time without any carbon dosing ( in the 10g ) carbon dosing didn't start until I got the 22g going/skimmer

I started dosing NP bacto balance in the 1st part of June ran this for 3 weeks and didn't see any testable phosphate... on the 4th week I switched to Plus Np because that's what Lou says to do in his product video... fast forward I've been dosing the plus NP for 8 weeks at this point..I'm testing with Hannah Phosphate ( not ULR ) which is always 0.00

I dose All for reef to maintain Alk at 8ish DKH via red sea pro test kit.

I have dinos, GHA, and cyano ALL at the same time..... I know it's this TM carbon source as this tanks was looking NICE prior to starting the TM carbon program.

Tank is about 1.5 years old
Ai 16Hd @ 10" with Darren Copper's salty poppy tune

For context I ALWAYS have issues with low/undetectable phosphate with through the roof nitrates.
Idk why after 8 weeks I still have zero phos in the water???...

Trying to keep SPS again..... I'm a professional when it comes to killing off SPS lol ... what a waste of money :) y'alls know how many fishing lures I coulda bought instead heheh

20220821_100748.jpg 20220821_100743.jpg 20220819_144434.jpg
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

Hans-Werner

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I think it is very hard to tell dinos from diatoms and cyanos with plain eye. I think a microscope is necessary for a certain determination.

To come to your question: What do you mean with crashing? If you mean algal growth, it is because algae now have a nutrient that seemed to be lacking previously and you don't have sufficient competition from corals. What you see seems more like an initial phase from your description.

Without detectable phosphate you will not be able to keep SPS, and other corals will grow very slowly. On the other side phosphates seem to start algal growth in your tank.
 
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So basically your product isn't working ??

How much surface area via corals is necessary?? There must be some sort of mathematical variable involved???

I've read your posts about how the NP product's work...
 
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Never the hobbyist fault...always the product.
Oh sure like keeping a small box of water that's in many many many orders of magnitudes smaller than the real thing and we rely on test tube chemicals to maintain chemistry.....
Yup 100% no way it's the hobbyist fault... gimme a break sheesh
 

areefer01

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Oh sure like keeping a small box of water that's in many many many orders of magnitudes smaller than the real thing and we rely on test tube chemicals to maintain chemistry.....
Yup 100% no way it's the hobbyist fault... gimme a break sheesh

We don't rely on anything really other than a few basic necessities. You posted a question that is stating that a product is crashing your tank. You don't really define what that means, no photos, and when the company replies you say it isn't working. Why did you ask them for help?

The onus is on you to articulate what you believe the problem is. If you believe it is the product then stop dosing it and see what happens after a few days. It really is as simple as that. Personally speaking if I was you I would change or request to change the title of the thread because it alludes to fellow hobbyists that the product is at fault and it isn't.
 
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We don't rely on anything really other than a few basic necessities. You posted a question that is stating that a product is crashing your tank. You don't really define what that means, no photos, and when the company replies you say it isn't working. Why did you ask them for help?

The onus is on you to articulate what you believe the problem is. If you believe it is the product then stop dosing it and see what happens after a few days. It really is as simple as that. Personally speaking if I was you I would change or request to change the title of the thread because it alludes to fellow hobbyists that the product is at fault and it isn't.
Wow your ESP game is strong.

Hans came in and literally blames me,
" not having enough coral " to compete with the algea which is being fueled by the plusNP which Hans also stated !.
 

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areefer01

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Hans came in and literally blames me,
" not having enough coral " to compete with the algea which is being fueled by the plusNP which Hans also stated !.

Maybe you should re-read what he wrote. There is no blame. Just an answer (which you do not like).
 
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Ok gang, lets just settle down a bit.
Remember when you ask a question, your going to get an answer, you may not like it, but you will get one.
And if you want a title change, just ask, we can do it.
 

MnFish1

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So basically your product isn't working ??

How much surface area via corals is necessary?? There must be some sort of mathematical variable involved???

I've read your posts about how the NP product's work...
Just a couple observations - please don't take as a criticism.

1. You tank does not look 'crashed' - It looks pretty good.
2. Anytime you add a product you can transiently alter the nutrients such that algae can grow - especially in a tank with relatively low coral amounts and a lot of open space.
3. You stated that your nitrates are 'through the roof'. What does that mean?
4. I'm not sure that this product is designed to halt algae growth. Nor is it likely that a Hanna regular PO4 checker will detect the PO4 levels - perhaps a ULR version would be better?
5. What was your goal when you started to use the product?
6. Have you considered double-checking your tests (i.e. are they accurate)?
7. I do not think there is a mathematical formula involved. IMHO - the bottom line is that currently, your parameters are favoring algae growth over coral growth - or since algae grows faster than coral they are simply out-competing.

I hope you get some further answers
 
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Just a couple observations - please don't take as a criticism.

1. You tank does not look 'crashed' - It looks pretty good.
2. Anytime you add a product you can transiently alter the nutrients such that algae can grow - especially in a tank with relatively low coral amounts and a lot of open space.
3. You stated that your nitrates are 'through the roof'. What does that mean?
4. I'm not sure that this product is designed to halt algae growth. Nor is it likely that a Hanna regular PO4 checker will detect the PO4 levels - perhaps a ULR version would be better?
5. What was your goal when you started to use the product?
6. Have you considered double-checking your tests (i.e. are they accurate)?
7. I do not think there is a mathematical formula involved. IMHO - the bottom line is that currently, your parameters are favoring algae growth over coral growth - or since algae grows faster than coral they are simply out-competing.

I hope you get some further answers
Finally some actual constructive criticism, there are still good people out there TY !


My nitrates always flash 75 on the Hannah high range No3 tester I could do a 99.99% water change right now and within a week nitrates build back up. AND I'm conservative on feedings.

My goals with this PlusNP is literally to add phosphate to the system. Nitrates are ez with a water change but that doesn't solve my No3 issues long term

As far as test accuracy myself and every other person with Hannah testers is at the mercy of Hannah's QC department.. All other phosphate tests are a joke for anyone with bad eye sight such as myself. So no other brands to compare to.
 

((FORDTECH))

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Finally some actual constructive criticism, there are still good people out there TY !


My nitrates always flash 75 on the Hannah high range No3 tester I could do a 99.99% water change right now and within a week nitrates build back up. AND I'm conservative on feedings.

My goals with this PlusNP is literally to add phosphate to the system. Nitrates are ez with a water change but that doesn't solve my No3 issues long term

As far as test accuracy myself and every other person with Hannah testers is at the mercy of Hannah's QC department.. All other phosphate tests are a joke for anyone with bad eye sight such as myself. So no other brands to compare to.
How about just using a phosphate additive to put some phosphates in the water because nitrates need phosphates to be lowered so if your issue is bottoming out phosphates add phosphates and move on
 

fishface NJ

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I would have not used Plus NP but NP Bacto Balance or just like @((FORDTECH)) said just a phosphate additive.

 
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Tats
How about just using a phosphate additive to put some phosphates in the water because nitrates need phosphates to be lowered so if your issue is bottoming out phosphates add phosphates and move o

How about just using a phosphate additive to put some phosphates in the water because nitrates need phosphates to be lowered so if your issue is bottoming out phosphates add phosphates and move on
That's the goal with PlusNP that's evidently not working as intended.

The issue I'm seeing is TM product's goal is to recycle nutrients back down to heterotrophic bacteria. Rather than typical carbon dosing that off gasses as nitrogen.
 

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Tats



That's the goal with PlusNP that's evidently not working as intended.

The issue I'm seeing is TM product's goal is to recycle nutrients back down to heterotrophic bacteria. Rather than typical carbon dosing that off gasses as nitrogen.
Are you sure about this statment?
The point of carbon dosing is to skim out.
The final phase of a cycle is gas. Most tanks will not reach this phase. This is why years ago we set up deep sand beds. To get to the anoxic zone and the bed will gas out bubbles.
I agree to the statement you should be dosing po4. I don't know the product firsthand but it sounds like it would be used if you were already balanced.
 
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My nitrates always flash 75 on the Hannah high range No3 tester I could do a 99.99% water change right now and within a week nitrates build back up. AND I'm conservative on feedings.

IMO, this is because you’re over feeding the tank.

To your defense, I’ve dosed both NP-Bacto Balance and Plus- NP recently, and I find both to have very little N or P. Both have made my PO4 drop pretty significantly with very low dose’s.
 

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