Discussion in 'Battlecorals' started by Battlecorals, Apr 26, 2018.

!!!WILD FIRE...and the INEVITABLE AFTER BURN....

  1. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    It’s a pretty easy thing to do. Pick up some good looking maricultures, these days the line between consumer, retailer and wholesale's a little fuzzy anyway, so just about anyone can get their hands on a box of Indo's, or maybe a few wild Aussies. Cut them up into nice extra chunky frags, mount them on plugs and sell away. In fact it’s probably the easiest way to make actual money in this business by a giant margin. And with color hungry hobbyist, hemorrhaging at will, their hard earned income on corals they'll never see, the market is ripe with shoddiness. You see with wild sps, vendors have at their fingertips, a replenish-able product, that when fragged up, can be upwards of 500-1000% profit in some cases. It's fast, it’s easy and takes very little effort on the part of the vendor. I totally get it. Business is business, buy and sell buy and sell! And for the love of all things exploitable, Always Be Closing!

    SELL SELL SELL!!

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    Because, believe it or not my friends, aquaculture is tough. And by tough I mean excruciating. And I promise you I am not complaining, believe me, this is the path I have willingly chosen to walk, but the coral farmer is very much at the mercy of slow growth rates, extremely limited availability and long term coral health, while in constant state of stress and abuse from handling and fragging and such. The task to provide a continuous and thriving specimen becomes tremendously more arduous and strained. The trade off, barley warranted for the vendor, benefits the customer to an exorbitant extent with a superior product in both health and vitality.

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    With aqualtured sps, Gone are the brown, ugly and ill adaptive frags that greet you after a typical purchase of wild cuts. Certainly, frags are under an amount of stress in transit and can look a little weary after the trip, but anyone who blames a total color metamorphosis on shipping is flat out lying to you. That piece was bagged up looking just like the ugly nugget you received. However, if you've gone ahead and bought some wild piece's knowingly or not, and you're lucky enough to receive healthy looking pieces, the real struggle has just begun. You can expect most of that wild color to wane and eventually fade to brown. At this point it's anyone's guess as to whether you'll ever see that color you were initially drawn to, and probably based your entire purchase on. Sometimes it does, a lot of times it doesn't. And, if you continue to beat the odds enough to get to the next stage of this gauntlet, before you ever see any actual growth, your now dormant frags will not likely continue any upward growth, as they had before they were plucked from the reef or lagoon.

    The best you can hope for at this point, is that once your wild frags have truly acclimated to captivity enough to lay out a decent base, that eventually you'll see some new growth sprout out of this base. The actual original frag will probably never grow again. The new captive growth may resemble the original coloration to an extent, or may look completely different. For better or for worse. There is nothing certain at all that you'll be as enamored as you were with the venders pic that lured you in. In fact, it's best to keep your expectations as low as possible at this point, and maybe you'll be surprised. And I'm not even going to mention pests yet. Will save that one for another write up another day.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, this marathon of a process is how 85% of my collection was built. Nursing wild colonies, or the surviving frags off those colonies that inevitably crashed, and housing them for up to a year or two before even considering to sell them. It's a very drawn out method for investment returns, but as a farmer/collector, this is by far the most ideal means for me to operate in my opinion, providing the opportunity to supply a product far removed from its wild origins, and in turn far more likely to survive.

    Captive grown sps is worlds more resilient, and will stand up to the rigors of shipping and subsequent acclimation and transition better. Colors generally don't pull disappearing acts, but if they do wane at all, are far more likely to return faster, especially once the frag is acclimated fully. Ultimately, the majority of the crap that makes buying wild sps so disappointing, is essentially gone when you go with aquacultured coral. So, why not make the vendor put some elbow grease into it, and earn that money of yours.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018

  2. Davy Jones

    Davy Jones Valuable Member Build Thread Contributor

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    100% the reason I only buy from other hobbiest's or vendors that grow out the coral them selves.
     
  3. lakereef

    lakereef Active Member Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    True story. Aquaculture is the only way. Good writeup.

    I'd recognize that picture anywhere. Was the most impressive tank I've ever seen. We need to kindle the flames and get Peter back to this!
     
  4. pa1ntbru5h

    pa1ntbru5h Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up Adam!
    I don't think a lot of people realize this when they see all these super colorful rainbow tenuis coming in.
    Lots of vendors get these in and take pictures of them when their color is still vibrant from ocean life.
    You buy a 3/4" frag for $200-300 and then a few weeks in your tank it either browns out completely or dies.
    It takes time and effort to have truly aquacultured pieces that will grow and keep color in an environment such as our reef tanks!
     
  5. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Ha yeah, he's got things figured out for sure. would be great to see him get another system together.
     
  6. Clownman727

    Clownman727 Active Member Tampa Bay Reef Keepers

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    This is true but unfortunately nobody buying these frags on Facebook will ever see this post. So the crooks will continue to cash in while the unsuspecting hobbyists get taken advantage of. Sounds just like most businesses in this country.
     
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  7. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Lol yeah your probably right, but, anyone feel free to share this over there anyway.
     
  8. Abhishek

    Abhishek Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad

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    Amazing write up Adam ! That is why many of us who have bought from you in the past , always come back for the amazing battle tested aquacultured pest free acros that have stood the test of time .

    Buying wilds from vendors without a large mh term multiple staged quarantine system is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand -with quality aquacultured acros especially BC ones - we don't have to worry about qt . That's a big thing in my book knowing that I won't have to deal with crazy pests or atleast 99.99% sure as you have done all the hard work on my behalf .
    Anyone who haven't never faced AEFW - I hope they don't have to as it's excruciating even worse than
    Dinos .

    Regards,
    Abhishek
     
  9. dragon99

    dragon99 Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    So much truth it sounds like propoganda. I bought a mariculture frag pack early on. 4 of the 10 are alive 18 months later, none have vertical growth to speak of but are pretty well encrusted. One is green and purple, one is brown, one is green, and one is yellowish green. Overall it wasn't the worst money I've spent, but I've gotten so much better from aquacultured frags.
     
    Kinggeorge818 and Battlecorals like this.
  10. reefaboo

    reefaboo Valuable Member

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    very nice write up. i figured it the hard way :) now my first two questions to any one selling acros is "how long has it been in captive" "what lighting system has this been under"

    thank you Adam for the detailed write up :) and oh i shared this on one of the facebook groups.
     
  11. MTBake

    MTBake Valuable Member R2R Supporter

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    Yet another good write up! I really do look forward to reading these! Really appreciate all your hard work so we can drool over the coolest corals in the world in our own tanks!

    I never have enjoyed Facebook. Kinda just joined that to keep in touch with distant friends and family. I'm not sure if I could trust what some random 'dude with a saltwater tank' is slinging on there, lol.
     
  12. JasReef

    JasReef Active Member

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    Adam is right on the money. I get so sick of everyone I meet in this hobby thinking they are going to make money, or at least cover cost of tank, supplies, etc by selling little tiny slivers of corals at retail prices. I get you spent 500 on a little booger frag and feel the need to recoup that money but cutting the top 1/4 inch off and selling it for the same price is ridiculous. Even worse are what I call the chop shop guys who do exactly what you just described. Starting out in the hobby I have unfortunately fallen for a few of them but I have learned.

    I was at a frag swap a couple of years ago and asked a vender if the corals he had were mariculture, his answer, "no, I have had them for 3 months so I have aquacultered them." I just shook my head and walked away.

    Also a good tip off for mariculture is when the coral have those little tiny filter feeders attached to them that seem to only come from the ocean.

    Trade local in person and buy from people like Adam with steller reputations for delivering corals that meet the expectation of the picture.
     
  13. Caseyoidae

    Caseyoidae Well-Known Member Hudson Valley Reef Keepers Catskill Reef Member Build Thread Contributor

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    These overnight chop shops frustrate me too. Thanks for your dedication to our hobby. On a positive note my spainbow just exploded, looking really great!
     
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  14. ajcanale

    ajcanale Active Member

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    A good reefer friend shared this post with me this evening and after happening upon this thread, I was coming to post this near exact statement.

    Without any consideration I can say my most positive transactions regarding coral have been with private collectors or the very -few- vendors that are completely dedicated to aquaculture. We are becoming somewhat of an endangered species, so to speak, as there are many aforementioned vendors that once upheld this standard but have since converted to more or less chop shops, or at best, volume driven "flip" dealers. Many of them I have witnessed create their own Facebook pages for auctions or sales, which to me, is a tell tale sign of those intending to just "flip" coral and not dedicated to aquaculture.

    Cheers to those dedicated to the art of growing corals.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  15. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    Thanks a ton for this post man I really apprieciate it. Too kind relaly
     
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  16. xiaoxiy

    xiaoxiy Active Member

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    Preach Adam. I think out of the 8 mariculture pieces I've bought, only one has been a diamond hidden in the dirt. The other 7 have either withered and died or have turned a mediocre brownish green. Aquacultured pieces are definitely the way to go, especially for newer SPS keepers.
     
  17. Berlibee

    Berlibee ReefHacks Team R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor Build Thread Contributor

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    Nice read. ;)
     
  18. Foothill Corals

    Foothill Corals Active Member

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    I totally agree. I wish you had posted this in the "Reef aquarium Discussion" or somewhere that more newbies would see it. I don't think most reefers know how much that this goes on except for the more experienced old school SPS keepers.
     
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  19. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

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    I could have them turn it into an article? Its kind of short and sweet and a bit indulgent, but if you guys think that's a good idea I can ask them to convert it for all to see. let me know what you think
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  20. dragon99

    dragon99 Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    Since today's brstv said almost the same thing, I'd say it's not overly indulgent.
     
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