!!!WILD FIRE...and the INEVITABLE AFTER BURN....

mwilk19

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You should do it. Let people know that there's a reef friendly alternative to the chop shops that permeate this hobby.
 

Ashish Patel

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I added 4 wild acros the first year just because I could not resist the price and size. Wild acros are coming of shipping, and used to ocean food and all RTN within 3 months.. I wouldn't be surprised if their survival rate would be as low as 10% over the first year and probably contributes to the huge turnover in our hobby.
 

Mohammad D. ALMUTAIRI

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GREAT READ!! Adam!
I enjoyed every word of it.

in this part of the world, we don't have people like you, and all we get is a piece of colony coral chopped from the sea straight into our laps.
it's harder and harder to even get quality piece or something worth it.
"it's not only corals even fish"
so much that I felt so dang need to quite so many times, as it's not worth it to just throw my money away, or getting something that will crush my tank one way or another, it's harder for me to have a quarantine tank for corals or fish for 2-4 month to make sure it's pest free.

I tried so many time to talk and ask vendors or even fellow hobbyist but it goes in vain.

I wish I could share this with everyone around here, so they understand how much difference it makes to get something from someone like you, rather than chip chop shops who just act as if they steal your money are run.

THANKS A LOT. for writing this piece of art. and I wish to read more like it in the future from other people in this hobby, it might be the light in the end of dark tunnel of greed in this hobby.
 
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Battlecorals

Battlecorals

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I added 4 wild acros the first year just because I could not resist the price and size. Wild acros are coming of shipping, and used to ocean food and all RTN within 3 months.. I wouldn't be surprised if their survival rate would be as low as 10% over the first year and probably contributes to the huge turnover in our hobby.

Sorry to hear it man. I know the feeling. Sometimes it’s really hard to fight the urge when you see some of the pics floating around.


I know some vendors use wholesalers pics, which is pretty shoddy in and of itself
 

slojmn

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Oops, double post. Sorry
 
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slojmn

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Adam, love your articles. You are straight up correct in this article. Having been on the boards and in this hobby for 20 years, the explosion of 'vendors' is insane!!! I marvel at the new named 'vendors' I see popping up constantly, selling 100's of frags. I've tried a few here and there and usually get burned. I have my favorite trusted vendors and they never disappoint. Dont even get me started on saturated pictures.....UGGG, that's a whole different article. I have earmarked a nice big frag pack of some Battle "For Sure" Fire for my new tank once it is ready. I already have some of your pieces through hobbiests and they are bullet proof. Thanks for putting in the hard work. It's obvious you love the hobby.
 

swk

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One of the many reasons why my tank only gets Battlecorals additions. I seriously stopped going anywhere else a couple years back and it’s been worth it without a doubt. The pest issue alone is reason enough imo, but the icing on the cake is stable coral that actually grows and thrives.
 
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Battlecorals

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Adam, love your articles. You are straight up correct in this article. Having been on the boards and in this hobby for 20 years, the explosion of 'vendors' is insane!!! I marvel at the new named 'vendors' I see popping up constantly, selling 100's of frags. I've tried a few here and there and usually get burned. I have my favorite trusted vendors and they never disappoint. Dont even get me started on saturated pictures.....UGGG, that's a whole different article. I have earmarked a nice big frag pack of some Battle "For Sure" Fire for my new tank once it is ready. I already have some of your pieces through hobbiests and they are bullet proof. Thanks for putting in the hard work. It's obvious you love the hobby.

Thanks a lot for the post I really appreciate the feedback!
 

Servillius

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How many people agreeing with this have also complained about how overpriced corals are getting?

I’m only a little being intentionally provocative. It’s fair however to account for the effort when someone does finally find something nice enough to propogate.
 

fishfong

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Our famous named acropora started in our hobby was once wild. If you buy nice wild 1" to 2" inch colorful "chop shop" acropora frags from a vendor for $10 to $30, than it can be worth the purchase. A good chance some chop shop wild frags under proper care can grow in to holy grail corals. The one that doesn't color up but is very healthy can be donated to a reef club. IMO, this is the way to go if you are an experience and season reefer and have kept acropora growing for many many years. Spending $200 and up for any named frag is ridiculous.
 

swk

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Our famous named acropora started in our hobby was once wild. If you buy nice wild 1" to 2" inch colorful "chop shop" acropora frags from a vendor for $10 to $30, than it can be worth the purchase. A good chance some chop shop wild frags under proper care can grow in to holy grail corals. The one that doesn't color up but is very healthy can be donated to a reef club. IMO, this is the way to go if you are an experience and season reefer and have kept acropora growing for many many years. Spending $200 and up for any named frag is ridiculous.
I agree with everything here but this is where the pest thing comes into play for me. I don’t have, nor do I have time for, a separate QT system. I trust Adams exhaustive qt regimen to do this for me.

For that, I am more than willing to pay a premium for his time and efforts.
 

fishfong

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I agree with everything here but this is where the pest thing comes into play for me. I don’t have, nor do I have time for, a separate QT system. I trust Adams exhaustive qt regimen to do this for me.

For that, I am more than willing to pay a premium for his time and efforts.
I wonder if any reputablele vendore dare to say
I agree with everything here but this is where the pest thing comes into play for me. I don’t have, nor do I have time for, a separate QT system. I trust Adams exhaustive qt regimen to do this for me.

For that, I am more than willing to pay a premium for his time and efforts.
I wonder if any reputable vendor out there would advertise "I guarantee pest free coral to your door or your money back".
 

fishfong

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The other side of the coin regarding chop shop coral survival rate. An example. If a coral vendor find and chopped up a beautiful acropora mother colony to 30 pieces and sold all frags of the colony to 30 different people , the coral will have 30 better chance of surviving than when one person bought the whole colony.
 

rockskimmerflow

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I wonder if any reputable vendor out there would advertise "I guarantee pest free coral to your door or your money back".
That sounds like a great idea, but in practice I doubt it could ever be effectively implemented. I do not have an online storefront or any online presence in the coral retail market, but I do operate a small - roughly 45 reef tank clients - service business and I offer and guarantee to all clients pest free corals and fully quarantined fish that both come with a 2 month warranty. Here's the catch though, when it comes to a reputable online vendor.... how can they offer that guarantee and trust the customer not to blame them for mistakes they make with their fish, coral, or both that they buy from other vendors? Because I have a relationship with my clients and there is an understanding the my warranty is voided on any livestock if purchases are made from shops or vendors other than myself, I am able to offer a guarantee. Otherwise, I'd be out of business since it is almost without fail that the majority of fish purchased from an LFS, at least in my area, will bring in some form of pest.

All in all, I do not see it being feasible for any vendor other than a huge player like liveaquaria etc to offer guarantees on livestock in that manner. They can afford to take the losses, but when I sell 1,500 of QT fish to a customer and offer a guarantee I cannot have a situation where I am on the hook for replacing the fish should the client decide to throw in something unquarantined from another source and infect their system a week after I add all clean livestock.

And thanks for this article @Battlecorals, it really saddens me seeing shockingly priced, photoshopped corals that I know are obvious maricultures or freshly snipped wild cuttings that will strip tissue at the whiff of an alkalinity swing or a few ppb spike in phosphate. I run old school MH and T5HO grow systems with high flow rates and very low water borne nutrients with heavy feedings, so I have great success with wild's and maris. But never in a million years could I take a new wild piece and sell a frag to one of my clients and expect it to thrive and color. I always frag up a new acro and wait for the seed frag to turn into a mini colony with stable color before I consider distributing pieces. It's the only way I can honestly tell a customer that there's a good chance it will adapt to their system.
 

Rispa

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True story. Aquaculture is the only way. Good writeup.

I'd recognize that picture anywhere. Was the most impressive tank I've ever seen. We need to kindle the flames and get Peter back to this!
Is there any place where you can find the coral on the picture numbered with a list of the names by number?
 

Sarah24!

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Hello,

As much as I have really enjoyed readying this thread, and learned a lot some things that I find very important are left out. I’m not super new to the hobby, but just within this week have purchased my very first online coral order. Not one post says how to tell the difference between a live wild coral, or a live maricultured coral. As I have looked at several places just for the giggles, I was unable to find any sources dictating as such. This thread is truly amazing, and has a very strong and valid point. But, for people like me that are new to the online part, how do we tell? In addition how do we tell what our lfs even gets in?

Being aware the problem exist is truly amazing, and Huge thanks to Adam for the disclosure on such problems. But, how do we as I tell the difference between them to begin with?

Sincerely
Sarah
 

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