will Vibrant beat Dinos and turf algae?

ReefGuy1234 · Oct 21, 2021

I got all kinds of algae and turf algae is the main one and I got Dinos. I don’t know what kind of Dinos but I got it

I just saw the BRS video of them using vibrant and it work amazing for them and I also have heard of people use it for Dinos. This is my third time with Dinos and so I’m okay with it being a last resort or strong. So will it work and what’s your experience or knowledge of it?

dvgyfresh · Oct 21, 2021

Dino’s is a bacteria and not
Algae, vibrant would kill all the competitors of Dino’s and most likely allow it thrive / take over I would advise doing vibrant. What are your nutrient levels? Dino’s usually come after nitrate or phosphate hit 0

ReefGuy1234 · Oct 21, 2021

dvgyfresh said:
Dino’s is a bacteria and not
Algae, vibrant would kill all the competitors of Dino’s and most likely allow it thrive / take over I would advise doing vibrant. What are your nutrient levels? Dino’s usually come after nitrate or phosphate hit 0

So my I’ve tried a lot including high nutrients and that didn’t work. I didn’t do a water change for like a month and a half and I saw little success. That is why my algae is so bad and I wasn’t able to test my nutrients because I was getting false readings from the algae. I let my tank get so dirty as a way to try to stop it that my whole room smells like poop and it’s really disgusting. I just did a 50% water change so my nutrients are probably low but it’s still dirty.

dvgyfresh · Oct 21, 2021

A picture in white light would help determine some next steps , I’ve fought and beat Dino’s before without any chemicals from using dry rock - I feel chemical solutions are a bandaid to a problem and don’t fix the core of the issue

vetteguy53081 · Oct 21, 2021

Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

ReefGuy1234 · Oct 22, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up

Thanks for the suggestion. But I already tried that or some form of that and what not. I’ve tried the black out the bacteria and Hydrogen peroxide . And I’m doing Hydrogen peroxide right now. But I am more than willing to try it again thanks for the help.

LiveFreeAndReef · Oct 22, 2021

Chemical solutions like Vibrant are just a band-aid, not a cure

Spare time · Oct 22, 2021

PrestonsReef said:
I got all kinds of algae and turf algae is the main one and I got Dinos. I don’t know what kind of Dinos but I got it I just saw the BRS video of them using vibrant and it work amazing for them and I also have heard of people use it for Dinos. This is my third time with Dinos and so I’m okay with it being a last resort or strong. So will it work and what’s your experience or knowledge of it?

Maybe for turf, but no for dinos. Dinos seem to like 0 phosphate. Vibrant decreases nitrate and phosphate. The manufacturers think that there is a bacteria in vibrant that eats algae, which is why I would think it could help with the turf. Personally, the way I would use it would be to dose it but also dose phosphate or nitrate along with it.

vetteguy53081 · Oct 22, 2021

PrestonsReef said:
Thanks for the suggestion. But I already tried that or some form of that and what not. I’ve tried the black out the bacteria and Hydrogen peroxide . And I’m doing Hydrogen peroxide right now. But I am more than willing to try it again thanks for the help.

Assure you’re doing it the full 5-7 days and not adding coral foods or NoPox
Clean filters and skimmer cup daily and blow loose daily and net up the particles

cabezatuck · Oct 26, 2021

I would caution against Vibrant.
I had a bubble algae outbreak in my 3 year old nano tank. My larger tank had a small Dinos outbreak, it was only a year old, and I had recently added some frags from the LFS that had a dinos infestation. I was ignorant to them at the time and thought I could dip. They still made their way in.
With the suggestion of a larger LFS I sought for help I decided to dose Vibrant in both tanks to get rid of the bubble algae and the Dinos in one sweep. The nano tank after about a week saw the bubble algae turn clear and die off, I also noticed the sandbed was bright white and I could only see coraline algae and no other types of algae. It had a sterile look, something now that would concern me. Within another week of thinking I had the best looking nano tank on the block I experienced a massive Dinos outbreak, they coated everything in red, stringy, bubbly slime. My larger tank saw the same Dinos explode along with another brown, fuzzier type. This might have been bryopsis. When at disastrous levels it’s hard to tell what’s what.
9 months later I am still battling Dinos. I believe Vibrant only works in certain situations, as all tanks are different, and I also think newer less diverse tanks are likely to experiencing a shock to their fragile bio load due to this product, paving the way for Dinos to take over.
I am now raising nutrients, which bottomed out to 0 in both tanks after Vibrant, and have tried every other solution out there and am now finally seeing them retreat but not gone completely. I untimely used Dino X and have seen some success but I think dosing Chems is what got me here in the first place and as I phase out using Dino x(make sure you follow their instructions to the T) my focus is on natural stability by maintaining levels and I firmly believe as I do this and the bio load strengthens that what remains of the Dinos will die off or subside to near undetectable levels. Hope this helps.

edindubai · Oct 31, 2021

I dosed Vibrant with dinos and lost nearly all my fish within just a few hrs yesterday. I put my experience here:

Post in thread 'Vibrant gone terribly wrong' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/vibrant-gone-terribly-wrong.679601/post-9518507

The anenome and clownfish are completely unscathed so wasn't ammonia, I think it heavily depends on which dino species has taken residence but some can be a lethal combination.

haitian_reefer · Oct 31, 2021

I recently beat dinos by over dosing Polyp Labs Genesis. The cause of my dinos was vibrant, so I would suggest staying away from it. Have you identified which dinos you have?

Miami Reef · Oct 31, 2021

Did you say it smells bad?

Imagine if it’s cyano and not dinos.

We need pictures.

gbroadbridge · Oct 31, 2021

The symbiotic algae that give your corals color are all Dino's

You don't want to wipe them out., just get them in competition with other algae.

It is very unhealthy if you have one strain out compete the other, which happens naturally and resolves naturally.

In a glass box, you can help by simply feeding the good algae, and not removing nutrients that they need.

Keep NO3 around 10-20 and PO4 about 1ppm.

Eventually, the good algae will take control, just like what happens in the ocean.

Graham.

ScottB · Nov 6, 2021

Vibrant is not a known solution for dinoflagellates -- at least not the 5 species common to our captive systems.

It sounds as though you are looking for a Hail Mary with both of these problems. You could just go with a known, cheap algaecide like AlgaeFix to work down the turf algae.

Once you are done with that, get a confirmation on your dinos. Here is part of an article I am clacking on regarding dinos. Some of the links won't work yet, but it will set you on the right path for dino resolution.

Here ya go:

As the title suggests, this is intended as a short guide of what to do when you suspect dinoflagellates are trying to overtake your system. It is an attempt to boil down the protocols discussed across 11,000 posts in this "Are you Tired" thread along with thousands of other dino threads. I did not craft this protocol, nor have I conducted proper scientific tests to produce efficacy data. This is a simple distillation of many hundreds of observations. Nothing here is 100% effective nor terribly immediate, but if followed diligently, the odds are pretty good that you will reduce harm and get back to a more stable biome. There is one hobbyist I must shout out to as my mentor on this subject and that is @taricha. Whenever I have a question, I typically want his answer. There are many great contributors to the hobby on R2R and he is in my top 5.

We commonly find 5 different dinoflagellates in our captive systems. If your system has any vintage to it, some blend of these are already present. Like bacteria, you can't really avoid some blend of them entirely, nor should you try. They are a very natural microorganism that typically leads a very marginal existence alongside other, more dominant competitors. These competitors include diatoms, bacterial film, film algae, coralline algae, GHA, turf, corals, pods, etc. Some of these competitors are aesthetically pleasing while others are not, but they all have a role in managing surface space when the biome is healthy and stable. I could dump a bucket of dinos into my system today and my reef would not miss a beat. My competitive population is too established and healthy to cede surface to dinos. The point is, dinoflagellates are not super predators, rather they are marginal scavengers that only thrive once a reefer has starved, poisoned, or otherwise weakened the natural (attractive or otherwise) competitors.

So let's get to it. Here is the outline for this article:

Section 1: Do I have dinoflagellates or something else?
Section 2: What type of dinoflagellate do I have and why does it matter?
Section 3: Treatment protocols common to ALL dinoflagellate species
Section 4: Treatment protocol for Ostreopsis, Prorocentrum, Small Cell Amphidinium & Coolia
Section 5: Treatment protocol for Large Cell Amphidinium
Section 6: What to expect next & Avoiding relapse
Section 7: FAQs

Section 1: Do I have dinoflagellates or something else?
I will include some images of what dinos typically can look like in the aquarium. Each of the 5 species has a slightly different look in the tank. They can also look very different and meld into any of the other competitors mentioned above. They all form some kind of mucus. Some have long strands with bubbles while others do not. The mucus could be reddish, brown, gold, or in between. They can take over rock, sand, glass, plastics. They can be confused with diatoms, cyanobacteria, bacterial film and chrysophytes to name a common few. Good news: you don't need a microscope to find out if the gunk is dinoflagellates.

The coffee filter test:
a) Syphon out a good sample of the gunk along with some tank water.
b) Place in a container with a lid and shake very hard for 30 seconds or so. The gunk should be dissolved now.
c) Pour the solution through a coffee filter into a clear glass. The water should be largely clear now.
d) Place the jar under a light source for roughly an hour.
e) If the gunk coagulates back into a glob, well, welcome to the club nobody really wants to be in.

Section 2: What type of dinoflagellate do I have and why does it matter?
We can make some educated guesses without a microscope based on appearance and location, but I strongly encourage everyone to confirm which species is/are present. It is very common to have more than one species. Some are toxic while others are just a visual nuisance. Most respond well to UV treatment while one does not. They have different competitors too.

You can buy a student microscope for under $50 that will work just fine. 400X magnification is all you need, really. My son and I use it at least twice a month for all kinds of tank related stuff. Here is a link to one I bought but there are plenty of other suitable models. You will use your camera phone to take a video through the eyepiece. Experiment with zooming in with the camera for a bit more magnification. You might consider buying a phone cradle unless you have the hands of a surgeon. If you can find one with better reviews, buy that one. I recommend making a video because the swim pattern helps to determine the species almost as much as the shape -- especially when the image quality isn't perfect. Nothing special about slide prep, just use a dropper to suck up gunk & water and drop it on the slide. You get 400X by using the 10X eyepiece and 40X barrel.

Once you have a video, you have options:
a) You can ID them yourself, thanks to the fine Dinoflagellate Identification guide put together by @taricha. Be sure to look at the videos he has linked so you can compare swim patterns.
b) You can post the video to the main "Are You Tired" thread. There are a handful of people that watch the thread regularly and are quite good at identifying dinos. In the event of a split decision, tag @taricha for confirmation.

Again, getting a proper ID on your dino(s) determines a few important things:
a) Do I need to (properly) implement UV equipment? Or is that a waste of time & serious money?
b) Do I need to do a blackout of the tank? Or not?
c) Do I need to be concerned with potentially serious toxins? Or not?
d) Should I order and dose some silicates? Or not?

Billldg · Nov 6, 2021

I will not say that @vetteguy53081 program will or will not work. I was tempted to use it myself. Their are different methods of dealing with Dino's as most work, it really depends on how patient you are. I went with the BRS method and it worked. Vibrant was part of that method, but only a part. I also dosed other things and had to do several others things as well. It was a daily ritual with my tank. It took me almost 2 months to defeat the Dino's with this method. The only reason I did not go with @vetteguy53081 method was my concern with adding H2O2. I try not to add chemicals that are not present in their actual form, normally, to my tank. The funny thing is I may still have to after defeating Dino's...UGH!!!

vetteguy53081 · Nov 6, 2021

Vibrant will not work and smell is associated with dino. A couple of pics as to what tank now looks like would be very helpful with assessment.

vetteguy53081 · Nov 6, 2021

Billldg said:
I will not say that @vetteguy53081 program will or will not work. I was tempted to use it myself. Their are different methods of dealing with Dino's as most work, it really depends on how patient you are. I went with the BRS method and it worked. Vibrant was part of that method, but only a part. I also dosed other things and had to do several others things as well. It was a daily ritual with my tank. It took me almost 2 months to defeat the Dino's with this method. The only reason I did not go with @vetteguy53081 method was my concern with adding H2O2. I try not to add chemicals that are not present in their actual form, normally, to my tank. The funny thing is I may still have to after defeating Dino's...UGH!!!

H202 is mainly water making it supersafe to use

vetteguy53081 · Nov 6, 2021

For dino:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly