Wilson the Scorpaena Brasiliensis

[AngiGiles]

We got Mr Wilson (yes, the grumpy old man) a couple days ago. We went to pick up some acans and it was in his tank, asked some questions and learned it wasn't eating. We brought it home and he's in an acclimation box and eating like a champ. We planned to house him with a bunch of anemones and a starving mandarin, after asking some questions, that's not gonna happen. So there isn't much info out there, so here I am asking you guys! What would be a good tank for him? W will eventually be setting up our 125 as a fowlr when the floors are done, but for now.. would a 20long be good? 20 tall? A 29 established but with anemones and no mandarin? And what would a perfect tank look like? I real caves and hiding places, lots of rocks.. any big sandy areas? I was thinking of maybe some saltwater mollies and maybe some ghost shrimp? Think I could get anything to breed and populate a tank for him to have live food? We love tong feeding him, but I read live is better long term? Share your knowledge and experiences! I want to learn! Links to pages, articles, videos, anything!

 

[Ron Reefman]

Good question!

I'm considering setting up a 40g cube aio tank for mini predators. I'm thinking small mantis shrimp, coral banded shrimp, small fire worms, a small upside down jellyfish, a small or dwarf loinfish, some carnivorous mollusks and who knows what else... maybe some anemones and even a few corals. I can collect most of these when we go snorkeling in the Florida Keys.

Now you've given me a new candidate for the tank!

 

[AngiGiles]

Good question!

I'm considering setting up a 40g cube aio tank for mini predators. I'm thinking small mantis shrimp, coral banded shrimp, small fire worms, a small upside down jellyfish, a small or dwarf loinfish, some carnivorous mollusks and who knows what else... maybe some anemones and even a few corals. I can collect most of these when we go snorkeling in the Florida Keys.

Now you've given me a new candidate for the tank!

From what I read, I think this guy eats mantis shrimp, it stuck with me as a "wow" read haha

 

[lion king]

The 29g or the 20l would be good tanks, they do jump so make sure the tank is covered. If you click my name and "find all threads" you'll see I've kept 2. You will also find alot of nutritional info. Ghost shrimp and mollies are the live food you will want to offer, mollies do best in a brackish tank of around 1.013. Dead food offering can include wild salmon, San Francisco brand silversides, squid, and octopus. If you read through some of my threads you'll see why I recommend these foods.

They do enjoy open sandy areas along with various elevation and overhangs or caves. They will walk tge substrate so the whole length of the tank being open is good, and they enjoy watching outside the tank. They will accept foods from tongs but it's also important to include live foods in their diet, especially fish, mollies. Beware of feeding saltwater fish due to the chance of spreading disease.

 

[AngiGiles]

The 29g or the 20l would be good tanks, they do jump so make sure the tank is covered. If you click my name and "find all threads" you'll see I've kept 2. You will also find alot of nutritional info. Ghost shrimp and mollies are the live food you will want to offer, mollies do best in a brackish tank of around 1.013. Dead food offering can include wild salmon, San Francisco brand silversides, squid, and octopus. If you read through some of my threads you'll see why I recommend these foods.

They do enjoy open sandy areas along with various elevation and overhangs or caves. They will walk tge substrate so the whole length of the tank being open is good, and they enjoy watching outside the tank. They will accept foods from tongs but it's also important to include live foods in their diet, especially fish, mollies. Beware of feeding saltwater fish due to the chance of spreading disease.

Alright, so apparently the hubby has his limits, I told him about the new 29g tank for Wilson he was fine, it was when I told him we had to set up a Molly tank and a shrimp tank that he said "we are not setting up 3 more tanks!" Haha we probably will, but for NOW what should be the first tank bred live food? We can always bring home a few of whatever to make up a mostly complete diet when we drive the hour+ to any pet store with fish, but I'd like the better of the 2 "on hand". Also, the hubs suggested separating a tank somehow for shrimp and mollys... possible? We have also decided to turn our 72 bowfront into a more permanent home for Wilson, any cool tank mates suggested? We'd like an aggressive tank? If that's what you'd call it, we like lion fish, puffers, eels.. stuff like that, weird ones I suppose. Here's what most of my pictures look like because this is when I stare at him most! Also, how often should we be feeding him? He's LUNGING at the tongs now haha it almost makes me jump!

 

[AngiGiles]

What kind of cuc can you keep with this guy??

 

[lion king]

How big is he? Feeding every other day at most to a couple of times a week.

Hard bodied inverts are fine, just no shrimp. Snails, hermits, conch, urchins, starfish, are all fine.

Dwarf lions would be good mates, a skelator or snowflake eel, but no fang tooth eels. You have to be careful with puffers, I'm sure you are talking about the small ones, because some have a tendency to nip.

If I were to only have one feeder tank, it would be for ghosties, they can be staples for any predator at any size. You can also keep guppies in the same tank. It can be a simple tank, or even container, with a sponge filter. If you have a lfs you can appropriate sized mollies, you can supplement one or 2 a week.

 

[AngiGiles]

How big is he? Feeding every other day at most to a couple of times a week.

Hard bodied inverts are fine, just no shrimp. Snails, hermits, conch, urchins, starfish, are all fine.

Dwarf lions would be good mates, a skelator or snowflake eel, but no fang tooth eels. You have to be careful with puffers, I'm sure you are talking about the small ones, because some have a tendency to nip.

If I were to only have one feeder tank, it would be for ghosties, they can be staples for any predator at any size. You can also keep guppies in the same tank. It can be a simple tank, or even container, with a sponge filter. If you have a lfs you can appropriate sized mollies, you can supplement one or 2 a week.

Do you have any top down views?? This guy was SUPER skinny, the guy I got him from said he hadn't eaten in weeks, so we're feeding him some pe mysis 3-4 times a day. He eats maybe 4 each time. We tried to measure him, I'd say 3" nose to tail. Here's a pic of him in the 29g for reference. Were getting him his own 29 today and it'll be a few days to get it all set up and running. I'm just praying he keeps eating until I can get somewhere to get him some live foods. As I said my "LFS" is and hour+ away and I'm on a 9 day work stretch right now
Thank you for the tank mate suggestions! We're so excited!
We will be setting up a ghost shrimp tank in a 10g for now

 

[AngiGiles]

And another because I just think k he's so pretty!

 

[lion king]

These fish do not eat like most, that's where many make the mistake. Because of their metabolism and their natural feeding cycle, they gorge, then fast. On feeding days it's ok to have him pig out, then you give a day or more as they mature, to fast. It's ok to feed daily at first, to fatten him up and get him strong, but eventually feeding too often will be detrimental. While pe mysis is a good food, try and give him something chunky, something from your fridge; shrimp, scallop, salmon, etc. Cut a little chunk, not too big, maybe about 1/3 the size of your pinky nail, and see if he'll take it. You can use a feeding stick to flick it up to make some movement, most of the time fish like this won't take food from the substate, it has to be moving. Using a baster squirt some pe mysis is his direction, a fish like this could literally eat a whole cube at one feeding.

 

[AngiGiles]

These fish do not eat like most, that's where many make the mistake. Because of their metabolism and their natural feeding cycle, they gorge, then fast. On feeding days it's ok to have him pig out, then you give a day or more as they mature, to fast. It's ok to feed daily at first, to fatten him up and get him strong, but eventually feeding too often will be detrimental. While pe mysis is a good food, try and give him something chunky, something from your fridge; shrimp, scallop, salmon, etc. Cut a little chunk, not too big, maybe about 1/3 the size of your pinky nail, and see if he'll take it. You can use a feeding stick to flick it up to make some movement, most of the time fish like this won't take food from the substate, it has to be moving. Using a baster squirt some pe mysis is his direction, a fish like this could literally eat a whole cube at one feeding.

Oh he's starving, even shrimps he misses he's eating off the bottom of the box. And we have a "mix" of meaty food that I thaw and especially been getting te big chunks of the silversides. I have plans to get him on some more nutritious foods, just gotta get there so we're making due with what we have. I read that about the overfeeding, but I think we have a ways to go yet.. he's just paper thin from the top down behind his head.

 

[AngiGiles]

We fed him his first live food! Wish I could upload videos! A Molly and a ghost shrimp! He didn't hesitate on either haha we also have set up his TWO feeder tanks, one for mollies and one for ghost shrimp! I knew the hubby would want the best for him. Still working on his 29g. I'm having trouble with the rocks and the sand area balancing out. Have any full tank shots for Inspiration??

 

[lion king]

Here's a thread I wrote with some tips on tank setup.

The Anatomy of a Predator Tank

I get many questions in regards to putting together a predator tank, so I thought I would put together some thoughts and guidelines to putting together a predator tank. First off my definition of a predator tank, means the fish are still living as predators in captivity, not be fed dead food as...

www.reef2reef.com

I'm a simple fowlr guy so my tanks aren't that fancy. Predators are also awesome in a reef. When you plan for your lion, they also like vertical cliffs so I include back side vertical space for secluded perching. Trust me the more safe and natural you make their space, the more active they will be. Giving them hiding spots actually makes them more bold and you will see them more.

 

[AngiGiles]

Here's a thread I wrote with some tips on tank setup.

The Anatomy of a Predator Tank

I get many questions in regards to putting together a predator tank, so I thought I would put together some thoughts and guidelines to putting together a predator tank. First off my definition of a predator tank, means the fish are still living as predators in captivity, not be fed dead food as...

www.reef2reef.com

I'm a simple fowlr guy so my tanks aren't that fancy. Predators are also awesome in a reef. When you plan for your lion, they also like vertical cliffs so I include back side vertical space for secluded perching. Trust me the more safe and natural you make their space, the more active they will be. Giving them hiding spots actually makes them more bold and you will see them more.

Ya for sure! And that's what I'm going for, natural.. if we add some coral later that's fine, but not what I want the focus to be. I want these fish to be as happy as they can be

 

[lion king]

Check out this move

 

[AngiGiles]

Check out this move

Beautiful! And also shows me how skinny this guy truly is I fed him 2 krill just a bit ago.. what would a "fatten up" feeding schedule look like? He seems to always be hungry but I'm scared to overfeed him.

 

[lion king]

Beautiful! And also shows me how skinny this guy truly is I fed him 2 krill just a bit ago.. what would a "fatten up" feeding schedule look like? He seems to always be hungry but I'm scared to overfeed him.

You can feed them their full for about 3-4 days in a row, then cut back to every other day. They can probably live every other day for 2-3 weeks and at that point assess. You want them eating big meals a couple of times a week, not frequent small meals. I usually go every 3 days once established. I say feed their full as they will refuse when full, as long as you are not feeding huge items, it is safe they will not over eat.

Be careful of krill, krill is very high in thiaminese and will cause a vit B1 defiencency, a vit B1 defiencency is a serious issue that will cause a premature death. The problem with krill is that many times this becomes the only dead food they will eat. When they eat only twice a week, the value of each feeding becomes more important.

 

[AngiGiles]

You can feed them their full for about 3-4 days in a row, then cut back to every other day. They can probably live every other day for 2-3 weeks and at that point assess. You want them eating big meals a couple of times a week, not frequent small meals. I usually go every 3 days once established. I say feed their full as they will refuse when full, as long as you are not feeding huge items, it is safe they will not over eat.

Be careful of krill, krill is very high in thiaminese and will cause a vit B1 defiencency, a vit B1 defiencency is a serious issue that will cause a premature death. The problem with krill is that many times this becomes the only dead food they will eat. When they eat only twice a week, the value of each feeding becomes more important.

And silversides?? We don't have the feeder tanks up and running yet, but we can certainly drive to grab live once a week probably. We grabbed krill and silversides for the midweek feedings for now. For now, Wilson is eating anything we put in and is unfortunately still in the acclimation box, waiting for his new home to be ready. Working for a living blows haha

 

[lion king]

And silversides?? We don't have the feeder tanks up and running yet, but we can certainly drive to grab live once a week probably. We grabbed krill and silversides for the midweek feedings for now. For now, Wilson is eating anything we put in and is unfortunately still in the acclimation box, waiting for his new home to be ready. Working for a living blows haha

San Francisco Bay brand silversides is the only true silverside that does not contain thiaminese, Petco and Petsmart both carry them if your lfs doesn't. Silversides is a common name and all the other brands use everything from smelt to minnows to anchovies, all which contain thiaminese. This is one of the biggest problems with the dead food choices most feed their predators. In captivity unless feeding live ghost shrimp or other live shrimp like a peppermint shrimp, it is best to limit any crustaceans as they all contain a high amount of thiaminese. Wild salmon is a valuable inclusion in a dead food diet and the only dead food I would feed on a regular basis, a fatty fish and/or a live fish must be included for them to get the necessary fats. Squid and octopus can also be offered, as well as scallops and mussels occasionally.

You can even use a Tupperware type container with a sponge filter for guppy and/or ghostie tank.

 

[AngiGiles]

San Francisco Bay brand silversides is the only true silverside that does not contain thiaminese, Petco and Petsmart both carry them if your lfs doesn't. Silversides is a common name and all the other brands use everything from smelt to minnows to anchovies, all which contain thiaminese. This is one of the biggest problems with the dead food choices most feed their predators. In captivity unless feeding live ghost shrimp or other live shrimp like a peppermint shrimp, it is best to limit any crustaceans as they all contain a high amount of thiaminese. Wild salmon is a valuable inclusion in a dead food diet and the only dead food I would feed on a regular basis, a fatty fish and/or a live fish must be included for them to get the necessary fats. Squid and octopus can also be offered, as well as scallops and mussels occasionally.

You can even use a Tupperware type container with a sponge filter for guppy and/or ghostie tank.

Oh we have the San Francisco brand for silversides so that's good. And the tanks are set up just doing a quick cycle on them. I'm more focused on getting the 29 set up for him, but yes, both are important and in the works