With all the recent advances in medical technology why cant we get hardcore fish treatments?

[Projects with Sam]

Its just crazy how many new posts and new members come to the site to post about their sick fish.

 

[SlugSnorter]

NO, I've been advised by experienced hobbyists to administer 3 to 4 medications at once followed by another combination shortly later.

like what? and by who? If its a store are you sure they aren't just trying to make a quick buck? Nobody on here will say something like that and not immediately get criticized unless the tank is dealing with a bunch of diseases. For what sickness was it and what meds were said? and are you sure they were all meds and not just probiotics or binders?

 

[SlugSnorter]

Its just crazy how many new posts and new members come to the site to post about their sick fish.

Lots of diseases in the hobby, its scary for a new (and even sometimes experienced) aquiruists to deal with, and its only natural to want some advice on how to deal with them

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I am sure, however, I feel we're at the point where I've made my opinion about the original post clear

 

[Lyss]

Its just crazy how many new posts and new members come to the site to post about their sick fish.

IMO one problem with the hobby is that responsibility for fish illness is passed on to the consumer. From an economic perspective of being in the business I understand why, but I think it ultimately harms the hobby.

Not saying consumers shouldn't be more proactive and take the time to learn and get informed/do what it takes to ensure their new fish are healthy, just saying it is really a recipe for disaster to pass this aspect on to the consumer.

 

[WVNed]

we don't fully understand how anethstia works either, doesn't mean its bad. We know it works, we know the risks involved and what it helps with, but the exact mechanism is unknown. This doesn't mean you shouldn't use it if you need it to survive.

I am not saying dont use them. I am saying we are not as smart as we think we are in how things work.

How something works is kind of important if you want to change it to do something else.

 

[moorjames]

Sometimes it's not about the cost of R&D- sometimes people will do it for the need. I do believe that even if you take the money out of medicine- people will still develop cures and create medicine because they truly want to help others avoid the experience they had. Inventions often come from a need- not a want

 

[WVNed]

Sometimes it's not about the cost of R&D- sometimes people will do it for the need. I do believe that even if you take the money out of medicine- people will still develop cures and create medicine because they truly want to help others avoid the experience they had. Inventions often come from a need- not a want

LOL

 

[Paul B]

If someone ever discovers how to 100% completely eliminate ich from this hobby, thats when the hobby will cease to exist. Ich is a normal, natural part of all fish in the sea and we need to learn how fish naturally live with it.

If we eliminate it and keep taking fish from the sea, our fish will never have any immunity and will be impossible to keep.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Doctorgori]

I am sorry all, I am intentionally being brisk to keep this thread active.

next time wear a cardigan and say “welcome to the neighborhood” … lol …I’ve slipped a few times, there is always the edit button, they give you a few minutes to change ..
I use it liberally

Thanks! I got carried away, sorry if offended anyone. Just a little touchy after seeing what I think is ich in my tank and being nervous about going away on vacation for a week... Have ordered Polyp Labs Medic in the hopes my fish'll be alive when I get back.

again, being easily offended is the new millennial control mechanism, developed sometime around 2008

Its just crazy how many new posts and new members come to the site to post about their sick fish.

be glad they didn’t go to Petco

Sometimes it's not about the cost of R&D- sometimes people will do it for the need. I do believe that even if you take the money out of medicine- people will still develop cures and create medicine because they truly want to help others avoid the experience they had. Inventions often come from a need- not a want

don’t hold your breath, I have much less faith in our brethren

 

[Lyss]

If someone ever discovers how to 100% completely eliminate ich from this hobby, thats when the hobby will cease to exist. Ich is a normal, natural part of all fish in the sea and we need to learn how fish naturally live with it.

If we eliminate it and keep taking fish from the sea, our fish will never have any immunity and will be impossible to keep.

Just my opinion of course.

On some level I get you, Paul. But on another level I kinda think that's similar to saying we shouldn't get vaccinated for polio or whatever b/c it will destroy our natural immunity and we need polio to exist, or we shouldn't take medications if/when we need them b/c we're built to manage that on our own. Some people are immunocompromised, too, and can't naturally protect themselves. The idea of vaccination is to protect entire populations and build immunity to the stuff your body can't handle.

 

[SlugSnorter]

If someone ever discovers how to 100% completely eliminate ich from this hobby, thats when the hobby will cease to exist. Ich is a normal, natural part of all fish in the sea and we need to learn how fish naturally live with it.

If we eliminate it and keep taking fish from the sea, our fish will never have any immunity and will be impossible to keep.

Just my opinion of course.

what? Fish in the ocean don't have Ich for long in part because the billons of gallons of water doesn't allow it to collect and the params are very good. Our tanks are too small so ich can build up, and fish get sick. Also not how ich works at all, nor how any immune cells function.

 

[Tamberav]

NO, I've been advised by experienced hobbyists to administer 3 to 4 medications at once followed by another combination shortly later.

If you go to disease section of the forums here and click on current QT protocol. It uses two medications and not at the same time.

Maybe stop just asking randoms about cocktail of meds and then subjecting your fish to such things.

 

[Projects with Sam]

SO. I'd spend the money on the drug... would you? hmm I should have made this a vote.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

If you go to disease section of the forums here and click on current QT protocol. It uses two medications and not at the same time.

Maybe stop just asking randoms about cocktail of meds and then subjecting your fish to such things.

Its always seemed ridiculous to give so many meds to fish so I never have. As for asking randoms, i dont ask them. If I'm searching through forums written by people who have similar problems as me I simply read them to see what others have been trying. This doesn't mean I'm trying those medications, it means I'm educating myself.

Btw, this forum has strayed far from the original post which has been previously pointed out. I've said it once and I'll say it again, I stated my opinion regarding "hardcore medications" as it was written in the post.

 

[Karen00]

I think, in some cases, it's not the active organism that is troublesome in curing it's the various lifestages. It sounds like the meds work well (if caught early enough) but do nothing for the other stages of the organism hence having to go fallow or the organism hits so quickly there isn't much time to do anything. What's needed is a preventative like a vaccine that is safe to dose the main tank or a series of meds to treat the various stages. Having said that it might still be a two pronged approach because it sounds like most/all fish have these organisms on/in them and it's stress that brings it out in which case a preventative does nothing. You would still need meds. What's also becoming a challenge is having to get prescriptions from a vet. I don't necessarily see this as bad because you want to make sure you're getting a proper diagnoses but how many vets know about aquatic illnesses? I will have to ask mine out of curiosity. Do they all go through a segment of fish illnesses? (All vets chime in). This is when a preventative would be nice. Hopefully it would be done at the seller's location and somehow they just get a blanket script to purchase these.

I'm sure the money for any type of development wouldn't come from mainstream channels as I'm sure they don't see aquatics as a source of revenue unless you get big time lobbyists behind it advocating for public aquariums, etc. I think something like this would have to be crowdfunded.

 

[Karen00]

LOL
I have been blessed to have several chronic diseases. Modern medical tech seems about a 1/2 step away from dancing around a fire in a mask to scare the cooties away.

Ever read any drug monographs or package inserts? For the vast majority of them the mechanism of action is unknown.

Metformin. One of the most commonly used diabetes drugs.
Metformin was first described in the scientific literature in 1922, by Emil Werner and James Bell, as a product in the synthesis of N,N-dimethylguanidine.[121] In 1929, Slotta and Tschesche discovered its sugar-lowering action in rabbits, finding it the most potent biguanide analog they studied.[

The molecular mechanism of metformin is not completely understood. Multiple potential mechanisms of action have been proposed

85 million prescriptions given for metformin in 2019.

It is so weird you mentioned the mechanism I'd not completely understood. I suffer from migraines and there's a whole new generation of meds being promoted as preventative or as needed. What's weird watching the commercials is that a lot of them have the line "it's thought that the blah, blah ingredient works to inhibit the migraine". I'm like "wait... you don't even know if the blah blah ingredient is actually the cause of the cure?" You're right about being a 1/2 step away from dancing around the fire with masks with some of these treatments.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

It's called supply and demand. Go to work today. To the store. Go to school. Ask how many people have a saltwater or even a fresh water aquarium... ask how many are serious about it or just have a SpongeBob SquarePants tank at home they stock from petco and petsmart...
Why develop and research something that won't make $?
D

 

[Paul B]

The idea of vaccination is to protect entire populations and build immunity to the stuff your body can't handle.

I totally agree and am triple vaccinated. We don't have to vaccinate our fish because all fish in the sea are exposed to ich already (vaccinated).

All we have to do is let the fish keep that immunity. Medicating or quarantining for an "extended" period of time will allow the fish to lose that immunity.

When that happens, like it does all the time in this hobby, the fish are extremely sensitive to any pathogen which is why we treat fish for something, then have to treat for something else.

Healthy fish from the sea have no trouble dealing with parasites and they eat them with every meal which keeps them immune.

All fish come in with some parasites because thats normal in the sea. If we allow the fish to lose it's immunity by killing all those parasites, we will always have to rely on medications.

I have not used any medication in probably 35 or 40 years and have not lost any fish to any "communicable" disease in that time. Not even one.

I buy the same fish as everybody else in an LFS but I "treat" the fish to proper food that has living bacteria in it along with parasites to keep them immune. It also has to do with tank conditions.

what? Fish in the ocean don't have Ich for long in part because the billons of gallons of water doesn't allow it to collect and the params are very good. Our tanks are too small so ich can build up, and fish get sick. Also not how ich works at all, nor how any immune cells function.

It has little to do with the volume of water in the oceans. Our fish immunity will strengthen as much as it needs to deal with any parasites in our tanks. That is the main reason fish have slime. It is full of antiparasitic properties. Remember fish eat parasites with every meal and they are processed in their kidney which tells the fish what kind of antiparasitic properties to develop. I linked studies on this in the past so I won't do it again.

If this were not true, my tank wouldn't exist. I am not the God of fish so if you feel the need to quarantine or medicate them, go ahead, they are your fish. But thats why we have a disease forum.

I wish you and your fish well and to be disease free forever.

 

[bradleym]

next time wear a cardigan and say “welcome to the neighborhood” … lol …I’ve slipped a few times, there is always the edit button, they give you a few minutes to change ..
I use it liberally

again, being easily offended is the new millennial control mechanism, developed sometime around 2008

be glad they didn’t go to Petco

don’t hold your breath, I have much less faith in our brethren

The quote in your comment is not mine. The link with my name goes somewhere else. Time for that edit button.