yellow Tile fish (Hoplolatilus Luteus) swim bladder issue??

[Lemons]

I got these bonded yellow tilefish about a day ago, and at first I thought one of them was just a little chunky. but they appear to be constantly fighting to sink. often resulting in them sticking themselves under something.

both of them eat very well to my surprise.

I started metro in the food. From my quick research magnesium sulfate ( Epsom salt) might help with these kinda balance issues? or maybe they're just a little out of wack from shipping still...

Also, I am in Canada and it's pretty hard to get any fish meds...

so if anyone wants to toss in their two cents about how to treat this would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Sharkbait19]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

I got these bonded yellow tilefish about a day ago, and at first I thought one of them was just a little chunky. but they appear to be constantly fighting to sink. often resulting in them sticking themselves under something.

both of them eat very well to my surprise.

I started metro in the food. From my quick research magnesium sulfate ( Epsom salt) might help with these kinda balance issues? or maybe they're just a little out of wack from shipping still...

Also, I am in Canada and it's pretty hard to get any fish meds...

so if anyone wants to toss in their two cents about how to treat this would be greatly appreciated!

Many times when you buy new fish, they will suck air in the bag as water is sloshing around and in a day or two, will subside and suddenly they are normal.
If its a buoyancy issue, struggling to maintain a normal swimming position is relevant to swim bladder infection or similar internal issue/symptom.
If severe buoyancy problems exist, the fish may not be able to feed normally or even reach the surface of the water. This disorder is sometimes caused by compression of the swim bladder, which may involve a distended stomach from rapidly eating, overeating, constipation, or gulping air, which is thought to occur with floating foods. Eating freeze-dried or dry flake food that expands when it becomes wet can also lead to an enlarged stomach or intestinal tract.

 

[Lemons]

Many times when you buy new fish, they will suck air in the bag as water is sloshing around and in a day or two, will subside and suddenly they are normal.
If its a buoyancy issue, struggling to maintain a normal swimming position is relevant to swim bladder infection or similar internal issue/symptom.
If severe buoyancy problems exist, the fish may not be able to feed normally or even reach the surface of the water. This disorder is sometimes caused by compression of the swim bladder, which may involve a distended stomach from rapidly eating, overeating, constipation, or gulping air, which is thought to occur with floating foods. Eating freeze-dried or dry flake food that expands when it becomes wet can also lead to an enlarged stomach or intestinal tract.

hopefully, the little guy will be okay. I guess it's one of those wait and see type of scenaros

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I got these bonded yellow tilefish about a day ago, and at first I thought one of them was just a little chunky. but they appear to be constantly fighting to sink. often resulting in them sticking themselves under something.

both of them eat very well to my surprise.

I started metro in the food. From my quick research magnesium sulfate ( Epsom salt) might help with these kinda balance issues? or maybe they're just a little out of wack from shipping still...

Also, I am in Canada and it's pretty hard to get any fish meds...

so if anyone wants to toss in their two cents about how to treat this would be greatly appreciated!

Deep water fish, collected for the pet trade need to be decompressed as they are brought to the surface. The best way to do this is to hold the fish in a cage and bring it slowly to the surface over a day or two. The trouble is, collectors won't take the time to do this. Instead, they "needle" the fish's expanding swim bladder to reduce the gas by poking it and letting the excess gas out. The trouble is, that can result in secondary infection. In addition, the subsequent shipping of the fish via air cargo (at lower air pressure) makes the problem worse.

Magnesium sulfate is a freshwater fish tonic, it does not work for marine fish (saltwater is already about 20% magnesium sulfate).

I've tried recompressing fish with this issue in a pressure chamber, but even that doesn't usually work. In the end, I've found that some of these affected fish recover, and some don't, but no intervention on my part seems to change the outcome. I see this most often in Tilefish, Deep-water Basslets and Genicanthus angelfish.

Supportive care is the only way to go - keep the fish in the best conditions possible, and feed them well (and for tilefish, keep the tank well covered!)


Jay

 

[Lemons]

Oh boy… so then the poor thing has the bends well it seems to be eating and competing for food just fine… hopefully the issue will resolve itself. But if not i guess i have a special needs fish that should have stayed in the diving bell or perhaps in the ocean

thanks for lending your expertise Jay!

 

[Fishfreak2009]

Oh boy… so then the poor thing has the bends well it seems to be eating and competing for food just fine… hopefully the issue will resolve itself. But if not i guess i have a special needs fish that should have stayed in the diving bell or perhaps in the ocean

thanks for lending your expertise Jay!

It should eventually go away as long as the fish are eating well.

For what it is worth, the fish in the video are not Hoplolatilus luteus, but are Hoplolatilus fourmanoiri. They tend to be a little hardier, and are awesome fish. I have one in my 75 gallon. Super smart fish and extremely greedy when it comes to food.

Edit: If possible I would add sand of some type to your quarantine. These fish do much better with a sandbed, as they like to burrow. It also almost seems like one of the fish is trying to swim through the bottom glass, which the sandbed will help prevent. Mine has quite the elaborate burrow it shares with various gobies. They are excellent diggers.

 

[MnFish1]

I agree with @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 - my initial impression was they were just messed up by the glass bottom - as compared to a swim bladder issue. I.e. trying to swim deeper (just based on the video) @Jay Hemdal would you recommend an antibiotic to prophylactically treat if there is a possible infection I would not think metro would be the first choice?

 

[Lemons]

It should eventually go away as long as the fish are eating well.

For what it is worth, the fish in the video are not Hoplolatilus luteus, but are Hoplolatilus fourmanoiri. They tend to be a little hardier, and are awesome fish. I have one in my 75 gallon. Super smart fish and extremely greedy when it comes to food.

Edit: If possible I would add sand of some type to your quarantine. These fish do much better with a sandbed, as they like to burrow. It also almost seems like one of the fish is trying to swim through the bottom glass, which the sandbed will help prevent. Mine has quite the elaborate burrow it shares with various gobies. They are excellent diggers.

Yea I was wonder if it was luteus, I was under the impression that maybe they just lost alot of colour… but either way i do quite love their colour!

but also! The constant swim downwards seems to have eased a touch… perhaps they’re getting used to a glass bottom.

 

[Lemons]

I agree with @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 - my initial impression was they were just messed up by the glass bottom - as compared to a swim bladder issue. I.e. trying to swim deeper (just based on the video) @Jay Hemdal would you recommend an antibiotic to prophylactically treat if there is a possible infection I would not think metro would be the first choice?

I normally treat prophylactically with kana/ethro but I ran out, and being in canada it’s such a pain to try and get more, so I’m tryin metro before I decide to ramp copper

 

[Fishfreak2009]

I normally treat prophylactically with kana/ethro but I ran out, and being in canada it’s such a pain to try and get more, so I’m tryin metro before I decide to ramp copper

Be very careful with Copper and tilefish. It is easy to burn their skin with it. They are very sensitive to copper. I ended up not using copper, but ran a high strength UV for around 90 days non-stop, and treated with prazi for intestinal parasites and flukes

 

[MnFish1]

I normally treat prophylactically with kana/ethro but I ran out, and being in canada it’s such a pain to try and get more, so I’m tryin metro before I decide to ramp copper

So - I'm guessing that you got the fish - and were planning a QT protocol - including copper? If so - great. My comment - metronidazole is not a good antibiotic (IMHO) - if this is a swim bladder disease caused by infection. Something like kanaplex, or maracyn may be better. I sympathize though - with the issue - that its difficult to get medication in Canada. I think though - if you know a veterinarian (perhaps for a family pet) - they will give you a prescription for a broad spectrum antibitiotic you can then dose for the fish. Metronidazole is not that type of antibiotic. I was hoping ay would weigh in - the problem is - many people don't do anything - and it goes away, some treat with antibiotics - and it goes away , and some just die - so I'm not sure what the best course of action would be BUT - I will say this - if its a bacterial infection - in addition to the 'tilefish-copper' warning above - I would not use copper IF you think the fish has a bacterial infection - since copper can affect the immune system negatively. I would try one or the other. Hope this helps - and not trying to give you conflicting advice.

 

[Lemons]

So - I'm guessing that you got the fish - and were planning a QT protocol - including copper? If so - great. My comment - metronidazole is not a good antibiotic (IMHO) - if this is a swim bladder disease caused by infection. Something like kanaplex, or maracyn may be better. I sympathize though - with the issue - that its difficult to get medication in Canada. I think though - if you know a veterinarian (perhaps for a family pet) - they will give you a prescription for a broad spectrum antibitiotic you can then dose for the fish. Metronidazole is not that type of antibiotic. I was hoping ay would weigh in - the problem is - many people don't do anything - and it goes away, some treat with antibiotics - and it goes away , and some just die - so I'm not sure what the best course of action would be BUT - I will say this - if its a bacterial infection - in addition to the 'tilefish-copper' warning above - I would not use copper IF you think the fish has a bacterial infection - since copper can affect the immune system negatively. I would try one or the other. Hope this helps - and not trying to give you conflicting advice.

The copper was for ich prevention! I always run my fish through copper now!

 

[Lemons]

The copper was for ich prevention! I always run my fish through copper now!

But in addition I was able to source out some kana, the swelling/ balance issues are seemingly getting better. Now if it was an acclimation thing, swim bladder issue, or infection. I’m sure I’ll probably never know, but for now they’re both healthy and exploring the new surroundings!

 

[MnFish1]

But in addition I was able to source out some kana, the swelling/ balance issues are seemingly getting better. Now if it was an acclimation thing, swim bladder issue, or infection. I’m sure I’ll probably never know, but for now they’re both healthy and exploring the new surroundings!

Awesome!!!!!