Yes it's another plumbing question

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
Hi
Ok< quick questions> ok maybe not so quick
I been reading about sump plumbing and catching up on All the ways to plumb my sump correctly ?
(Questioning some setups liking others).
Below is a picture Of a Sump I put together. As you can see in the picture Its a 20 gal long.
<(from left to right basics specs of the setup)>
refugium/wall/Current return pump 1900g/h> /bubble wall media chamber 2 inch gape/gate wall 7-10.5 water hight/bubble magus protein skimmer/ wall/ sock chamber ,
So this is the basic layout of the sump system. Which I'm kinda proud of, first one and all that.
My tank is a 75 gal standard with a Bubble Magus overflow rated at 1800 g/h the bulkheads are 2xs 1.5 inch openings.
So during my readings on the forums, before i start the plumbing.
I have noticed and read that The refugium chambers are more in the center next to but after the protein skimmer chamber and before the return pump chamber with some of these having a "dirty water" line into the refugium?? feeding the alage??
My refugium is at one end of the sump.
My thinking was/is to keep out as much light from the rest of the sump as possible.
Then using the return pump to supply a line with a gate valve to control the water flow into the refugium.
OR Should I use a dirty water line from the tank with a ball valve? or gate valve? to control water flow back to the refugium.
The bubble Magus 1800 has 2 flow Lines both 1.5
One of the two flow lines from my box will be will be for an emergency overflow dump back to the sump backup event thingee It will stay 1.5 to the sump.
The main return trunk will be 1.5 reduced to 1.25 so at some point I can use some 45 degree run with a gate valve and then another 45 then under the cabinet to the sump all 45 angles if I can. I know need some unions on this run.
Or should I split this line into two trunks? One feeding the sock chamber with a gate valve. And the other one feeding the refugium Dirty water line with a ball valve or gate valve. And most importantly How would the line sizes be split up? So I can keep as much flow without the toilet sound exp: 1.25 line with a .5 line or should this be a .75 trunk. My target here is to be as quiet as a tank can be while keeping the refugium rolling
in advance: thx for reading this and providing me with some guru tank advice
Or should I just keep my plan pictured as so, Using the Kiss Principle , 'keep it simple stupid"
don't want to screw it up here.

Inked20200211_202158_LI Pic1.jpg
 
Last edited:

W1ngz

Failed Padawan
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
3,674
Location
Montreal, Canada
You can't do this with the drain. If you have a single drain (which is how it looks based on your single inlet) you can't split that off. The only way water would flow through both is if the pipes were completely filled with water, such as a siphon line, except siphons don't work with a split.

Algae will grow in the rest of the sump regardless if you have the refugium on the end or not. The more efficient way would be to move the refugium before the return.
 

motortrendz

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
2,835
Reaction score
5,497
Location
Lacey NJ
Agree with above and Will add to what wingz said, I also noticed your refugium only has one baffle with an under flow to your return pump, that means 1. Your refugium will have the same level.of water as your return chamber and the height will be affected by evaporation, and 2. All your macro, and anything else you have in the refugium will eventually make it's way under the baffle and into your pump

Also how are you flowing water over and under from your skimmer, the glass goes all the way to the rim... what is the water level you need in that chamber for the skimmer? And it doesnt look like you left much room for power failure water drain back.

Edit: after looking at the picture again for the 5th time, lol I see the refugium baffle goes all the way to the bottom and has slots for water to drain back.. you may get micro bubbles in the tank from the water running down the baffle into the return amd the pump sucking up the air being put into the chamber. And if the other baffles have the slots that would make more sense to water height control and would probably make my long response a moot point lol.

Just some observations, more pics would help if I'm not seeing something correctly.
 
Last edited:
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
20200211_201623.jpg
20200211_201651.jpg
20200211_202206.jpg
20200211_201639.jpg
20200211_201633.jpg

ok I added more pictures of the sump. All but 1 chamber is from top to bottom of the sump.
Now my thought process goes like this.
I have a HOB BM O.F. 1800g/h with two 1.5 drain return lines
One chamber will be for a emergency overflow only, straight dump into the sump making lot of noise to alert me to a problem and to keep the system from flooding the the house with 30 gallons of saltwater If the main gets clogged.
The other 1.5 drain would have a 45 Degree line being reduced to say 1.25 or 1 inc. Running to the sump with a gate valve to control water flow noise, I don't want a toilet in my living room .
So I figured it this way
????????????????????????In my ultimate wisdom ( <Dangerous I know>)???????????????????????????????????????????
Split the main running at a 45 degree angle. Into 2 lines say about 3/4s the way down with a 75/25 split.
Each line having a gate valve after the split being adjusted to allow the proper flow through both lines ?? And not allowing the toilet noise.
On this line it would be a 45 degree run also off the bottom of the main line .. In theory this should work by keeping the main line full by using a gate valve, and not ball valve.
Remember I can adjust flow rates as required and could actually overdrive the flow and possibly flood the living room out with the pump. This pump can push up to 1900 or is it 2100 g/h
Im looking to keep the flow 7 to 10 times the tank size. 75 gal tank
1.25 main with a 3/4 branch line

This in theory should work as long as the main lines and the branch line travel in a 45 degree pitch allow the 2ed line to supply the refugium. allowing the flow in too this line controlled by a gate valve also controlling the refugium water flow rate?
(the return pump is a DC adjustable flow rate motor which can outperform my overflow box.)
t.

View attachment 1429531 20200211_201633.jpg
 
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
Picture 1 first plan
Inked20200211_202158_LI Pic1.jpg
<-- this one// or that one-->
Inked20200211_202158_LI.jpg
Picture 2 Dirty Water feed---This one(pic 2) is what I came up with, if I have to feed the refugium with "dirty water".
(pic1) is what I was going to first go with
more pictures at the bottom. 20200211_201623.jpg 20200211_201651.jpg Inked20200211_202158_LI chiller pump.jpg 20200211_201633.jpg 20200211_201639.jpg 20200211_202206.jpg
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

W1ngz

Failed Padawan
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
3,674
Location
Montreal, Canada
I really don't think tinkering with the plumbing on a HOB overflow is a wise idea. One drain, one line down, no splits. Teeing off the return pump is the better of two bad options.

I would still reconsider the position of the fuge and return, remove the baffles and reposition to have the return at the end, and have the baffle with the adjustable height be the last one before the return, so that it maintains the water depth for the skimmer and refugium.
 
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
I really don't think tinkering with the plumbing on a HOB overflow is a wise idea. One drain, one line down, no splits. Teeing off the return pump is the better of two bad options.

I would still reconsider the position of the fuge and return, remove the baffles and reposition to have the return at the end, and have the baffle with the adjustable height be the last one before the return, so that it maintains the water depth for the skimmer and refugium.
Owwww
I guess grrrrr
I'll have to move the baffles
Around. what a pain in the....
Your point is well taken.
This is going to be a days worth of work
And 3 days curing . Before i can set up the plumbing o well
 

NowGlazeIT

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
1,937
Reaction score
2,040
Location
Palm Springs area
Hi
Ok< quick questions> ok maybe not so quick
I been reading about sump plumbing and catching up on All the ways to plumb my sump correctly ?
(Questioning some setups liking others).
Below is a picture Of a Sump I put together. As you can see in the picture Its a 20 gal long.
<(from left to right basics specs of the setup)>
refugium/wall/Current return pump 1900g/h> /bubble wall media chamber 2 inch gape/gate wall 7-10.5 water hight/bubble magus protein skimmer/ wall/ sock chamber ,
So this is the basic layout of the sump system. Which I'm kinda proud of, first one and all that.
My tank is a 75 gal standard with a Bubble Magus overflow rated at 1800 g/h the bulkheads are 2xs 1.5 inch openings.
So during my readings on the forums, before i start the plumbing.
I have noticed and read that The refugium chambers are more in the center next to but after the protein skimmer chamber and before the return pump chamber with some of these having a "dirty water" line into the refugium?? feeding the alage??
My refugium is at one end of the sump.
My thinking was/is to keep out as much light from the rest of the sump as possible.
Then using the return pump to supply a line with a gate valve to control the water flow into the refugium.
OR Should I use a dirty water line from the tank with a ball valve? or gate valve? to control water flow back to the refugium.
The bubble Magus 1800 has 2 flow Lines both 1.5
One of the two flow lines from my box will be will be for an emergency overflow dump back to the sump backup event thingee It will stay 1.5 to the sump.
The main return trunk will be 1.5 reduced to 1.25 so at some point I can use some 45 degree run with a gate valve and then another 45 then under the cabinet to the sump all 45 angles if I can. I know need some unions on this run.
Or should I split this line into two trunks? One feeding the sock chamber with a gate valve. And the other one feeding the refugium Dirty water line with a ball valve or gate valve. And most importantly How would the line sizes be split up? So I can keep as much flow without the toilet sound exp: 1.25 line with a .5 line or should this be a .75 trunk. My target here is to be as quiet as a tank can be while keeping the refugium rolling
in advance: thx for reading this and providing me with some guru tank advice
Or should I just keep my plan pictured as so, Using the Kiss Principle , 'keep it simple stupid"
don't want to screw it up here.

Inked20200211_202158_LI Pic1.jpg
This looks great by the way
 

W1ngz

Failed Padawan
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
3,674
Location
Montreal, Canada
That looks like a kit, maybe the manufacturer/designer has some better ideas than me. Trying to limit algae growth in the sump isn't a bad idea, but for me it's not worth it if it means sacrificing the efficiency and safety of the whole system.

A few days delay isn't a big deal, just wait until you get to water flow tests. I had my whole system turned around plumbing side out for a month using tap water until I was really satisfied with the flow and the noise (or lack of).
 
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
Yes the baffles are a kit i got off ebay
Triton sump baffle kit. I didn't like the height of the kit. So I added some lexon rounded the corners, and glued them together at the botton to rase the height. Then proceed to install them using GE Silicone 1 for plastics, clean Silicone, none of that no mold/ algee stuff in it.
This Silicone will hold the baffles in place No Problems.
I ALSO used the acrylic glue on the edges of the acrylic, to give the Silicone some rough areas to grab to.
An brother scoring was the trick to that.

But I did this before I found this R2R forum.
And was politely informed ;)
that my sump, Baffles are set up wrong #$%^÷$#%^*%&@[email protected]#
My fault I had a basic knowledge of this refugum build
And out thunk my self.
So now I will Have Too cut out the baffles
And reinstall them them gerrrr.
But
Thank You All, for the corrections and help
So as it dose not become a future problem.
Once this sump is installed.
It stays. I won't be able to remove the sump. It gets added to the stand through the top.
Pictures will follow when i do the tear out and reinstall.
 
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
OK ya all @W1ngz , @NowGlazeIT
So I took your advice and I removed the ballasts not an easy task. but I had to get new tires. so I had this disassembly time.
I took the sump in with me ripped it apart in the waiting room.
I removed ALL the Silicone from the ballasts and cleaned them. When you think its clean its not. It took sometime to get it clean & ready for resilioning these ballasts back in. (< ya my thoughts also, lol).
This GE silicone 1 For Plastics is the real deal. It does stick that's for sure.
It stuck to the acrylic just a little better better then it did to the glass
I tested the sump with a fill up no leaks.

So now let me get this straight. As far as this layout goes.
Sock chamber/ Protein skimmer chamber/ Refugium Chamber///Bubble wall?///Gate wall?/
or Gate wall?/ bubble wall? /Return pump chamber.
Or is it
Sock chamber/ refugium chamber/protein skimmer chamber//gate wall?/// bubble wall?/
or bubble wall? gate wall?
return pump chamber
I do have some lexon I could use, if you think it needs a little tweaking.

20200219_122049.jpg 20200219_094350.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
ok you asked here ya go
@W1ngz , @NowGlazeIT

20200219_215318.jpg 20200219_215259.jpg 20200219_215235.jpg I did have glue in some pieces to get a wall
I do have some lexan sheeting I can add to if needed 20200219_215340.jpg
 
Last edited:

BrandonS

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
434
Reaction score
421
Looks good. In the future you can use thin window gasket on the edges of the panels. Then wedge them in place. Makes them water tight and removable. Don't do with glass dividers as they may crack.
 
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
Where do you get the window gaskets from and they will handle salt and not leech toxins into the water
 

W1ngz

Failed Padawan
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
3,674
Location
Montreal, Canada
The pieces you've added on the bottoms aren't necessary. If case of overfilling you want the water to spill over each baffle and fill the entire sump so it doesn't overflow the rim. You do not want the baffles going up to the rim. A running sump should for the most part only be half filled with water.

Best as I can tell it should go this way:
Socks, then skimmer.
The one with the round holes to separate the skimmer from the refugium. The holes should go at the top.
The sliding weir next, which lets you set a fixed level in the sump and refugium.
The pass-under goes after the sliding weir to make a bubble trap and narrow section where you can put media bags like carbon or GFO.
The end is the return.
 
OP
OutLawX77

OutLawX77

Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 9, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
38
The pieces you've added on the bottoms aren't necessary. If case of overfilling you want the water to spill over each baffle and fill the entire sump so it doesn't overflow the rim. You do not want the baffles going up to the rim. A running sump should for the most part only be half filled with water.

Best as I can tell it should go this way:
Socks, then skimmer.
The one with the round holes to separate the skimmer from the refugium. The holes should go at the top.
The sliding weir next, which lets you set a fixed level in the sump and refugium.
The pass-under goes after the sliding weir to make a bubble trap and narrow section where you can put media bags like carbon or GFO.
The end is the return.
Ok so sock/PS/refugium/slider weir (gate) then bubble wall ok thanks I guess I had it backward. This way 1 return line in 1 out
O, Ok I'm beginning to see the blue light...
Lol
The pieces you've added on the bottoms aren't necessary. If case of overfilling you want the water to spill over each baffle and fill the entire sump so it doesn't overflow the rim. You do not want the baffles going up to the rim. A running sump should for the most part only be half filled with water.

Best as I can tell it should go this way:
Socks, then skimmer.
The one with the round holes to separate the skimmer from the refugium. The holes should go at the top.
The sliding weir next, which lets you set a fixed level in the sump and refugium.
The pass-under goes after the sliding weir to make a bubble trap and narrow section where you can put media bags like carbon or GFO.
The end is the return.
thank you W1ngz
 

How do you keep your aquarium temperatures down during the hot months?

  • Fan

    Votes: 54 33.5%
  • Chiller

    Votes: 22 13.7%
  • No need

    Votes: 69 42.9%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 16 9.9%

Online statistics

Members online
2,203
Guests online
4,494
Total visitors
6,697
Top