Yet Another Question about Live Rock............

[Frigideus]

So, I'm back again. I may need a refresher on some things, as well as some new clarification on live rock. My tank got shattered over the holidays, so I experienced a major setback, but I'm giving the hobby one more try, so I've since replaced the aquarium.

I've got pretty much all my equipment installed, and I'm now looking to put water into the tank. However, I would like to use live rock. When I watch videos on youtube, it seems like most people have their scape designed before they actually begin filling the tank with water. With live rock, however, I can't see this being the case. Should I have the water in the tank and have everything ready before the rock? I would assume so. How long can live rock be out of the water without anything bad happening? Is 'live sand' worth it as well, and should it be in the tank before the water as well? I just can't seem to find a definitive answer on the timeframe at which I have to work with, and what I'm expected to have on hand when my shipment arrives, and the sequence of events and timeline I should follow when preparing to start filling my tank, since it seems like the majority of youtube tanks rely on dry rock and fancy aquascaping.

It would also be helpful to know if I can just start with water first, and add sand and rock at my convenience, or if I am expected to try and have all three ready at the same time.

I may ask more questions, so bear with me here. Thank you for any insight.

 

[Fish Fan]

Sorry to hear about your tank, but how on Earth did that happen??

 

[Tatted Reefer]

Both live sand and live rock can be out of water for a bit while you figure out your aquascape. Ideally, you just don't want it to dry out. maybe hit it with a spray bottle to keep it moist if you expect it to take an extended period of time. Even if some of the beneficial bacteria dies off, it'll be replenished once the tank is running.

If it were me, I would probably put the sand in the tank with just enough water to cover it then build your scape. once you are happy with it you can fill the tank the rest of the way and start your circulation. The only reason I would hold off filling the tank first is that it's difficult sometimes to move everything around when it's submerged.

 

[Frigideus]

Sorry to hear about your tank, but how on Earth did that happen??

Family was around for the holidays. I had a plastic tarp over the tank because I didn't want it to collect too much dust while I was finalizing the details. I had put up the lighting already since it was the day before I had initially planned to begin filling it up. Unfortunately curiosity hit and someone tried to get a peek by pulling the tarp off incorrectly, which caused one of the light fixtures to dislodge itself and hit the glass at a poor angle before hitting the floor. No damage to the lighting thankfully but damage to the display was highly unfortunate.

 

[exnisstech]

I like to add the rock before sand this way i can make sure the rocks are stable on the glass and can stand without falling over. I put rock on top of sand once and it ended up leaning a lot after the sand worked its way out from underneath.
If you have a particular look of scape you want you could always build it out of dry rock then seed it with live. Two of my tanks were started with all dry rock in the DT and as much live rock as I could fit in the sump.

 

[X-37B]

So, I'm back again. I may need a refresher on some things, as well as some new clarification on live rock. My tank got shattered over the holidays, so I experienced a major setback, but I'm giving the hobby one more try, so I've since replaced the aquarium.

I've got pretty much all my equipment installed, and I'm now looking to put water into the tank. However, I would like to use live rock. When I watch videos on youtube, it seems like most people have their scape designed before they actually begin filling the tank with water. With live rock, however, I can't see this being the case. Should I have the water in the tank and have everything ready before the rock? I would assume so. How long can live rock be out of the water without anything bad happening? Is 'live sand' worth it as well, and should it be in the tank before the water as well? I just can't seem to find a definitive answer on the timeframe at which I have to work with, and what I'm expected to have on hand when my shipment arrives, and the sequence of events and timeline I should follow when preparing to start filling my tank, since it seems like the majority of youtube tanks rely on dry rock and fancy aquascaping.

It would also be helpful to know if I can just start with water first, and add sand and rock at my convenience, or if I am expected to try and have all three ready at the same time.

I may ask more questions, so bear with me here. Thank you for any insight.

Best advice is to have the system ready and add sand and Live rock at once.
This way your system is set for success.
I have set many systems up this way and you won't be disappointed.
You can have coral in your system in a few weeks. This assumes you know how to maintain a system, have a plan, and have on hand everthing needed before the rock arrives.
Checkout my builds. I have a 15g nano and a 150 all started from day one with LR.

 

[RobynR]

As mentioned by others live rock can be out of the water for a bit, and you can spray it with salt water to keep it moist while building your aquascape. You can use a piece of cardboard on the floor the same size as your tank as a template so you’re not moving the rock around the glass too much and scratching it, or in my case being short, I can’t really reach the bottom of my tank, I only get one shot. Once you’re happy, and you have a secure structure either rock locked or secured with glue and/or epoxy,

I would put the rock down in the tank before the sand, this will ensure a secure base (especially if you are going to have pistol shrimp, or any sand fish, like gobies or wrasse). If using dry sand make sure you rinse it well first or you might have cloudy water for a long time.

 

[Frigideus]

As mentioned by others live rock can be out of the water for a bit, and you can spray it with salt water to keep it moist while building your aquascape. You can use a piece of cardboard on the floor the same size as your tank as a template so you’re not moving the rock around the glass too much and scratching it, or in my case being short, I can’t really reach the bottom of my tank, I only get one shot. Once you’re happy, and you have a secure structure either rock locked or secured with glue and/or epoxy,

I would put the rock down in the tank before the sand, this will ensure a secure base (especially if you are going to have pistol shrimp, or any sand fish, like gobies or wrasse). If using dry sand make sure you rinse it well first or you might have cloudy water for a long time.

is setting the rock down directly on the glass fine, or should i have something under my sand that it sits on? also, what kind of adhesive should I use for live rock?

 

[Tatted Reefer]

is setting the rock down directly on the glass fine, or should i have something under my sand that it sits on? also, what kind of adhesive should I use for live rock?

a lot of people put the rock directly on the glass and it is not an issue. I used a thin sheet of acylic the size ot the base structure just to be safe. I have never been comfortable with 100 lbs of rock resting on a few pressure points. Again, most people don't have any issues. E-Marco 400 is awesome for cementing rocks together even if they're damp. I have heard baking soda and superglue works great too.

 

[areefer01]

Not sure why some are suggesting you can leave the live rock out of water. Yes, you can, but why? There will be die off if it is left out of the water for any length of time. I'm not talking about moving it from a storage tub to the main display or setting out to aquascape. So maybe those suggesting leaving it out should clairy the timeline and/or duration. A bit misleading to me. Note: I very well could be assuming leaving it out as in hours or longer which is why I posted.

With regards to glass/acrylic, substrate, or pvc - personal preference. I prefer to place rocks on pvc so it is secure. I may, or may not, place substrate to the base of the rock. Some places I do, some I do not. Flow will move it around anyway but I like a bit more free flowing around the lower area of the display.

 

[RobynR]

Not sure why some are suggesting you can leave the live rock out of water. Yes, you can, but why? There will be die off if it is left out of the water for any length of time. I'm not talking about moving it from a storage tub to the main display or setting out to aquascape. So maybe those suggesting leaving it out should clairy the timeline and/or duration. A bit misleading to me. Note: I very well could be assuming leaving it out as in hours or longer which is why I posted.

With regards to glass/acrylic, substrate, or pvc - personal preference. I prefer to place rocks on pvc so it is secure. I may, or may not, place substrate to the base of the rock. Some places I do, some I do not. Flow will move it around anyway but I like a bit more free flowing around the lower area of the display.

I wouldn’t for several hours, but to do a quick aquascape configuration it is okay, you’re not going to nuke anything.

 

[Tatted Reefer]

Not sure why some are suggesting you can leave the live rock out of water. Yes, you can, but why? There will be die off if it is left out of the water for any length of time. I'm not talking about moving it from a storage tub to the main display or setting out to aquascape. So maybe those suggesting leaving it out should clairy the timeline and/or duration. A bit misleading to me. Note: I very well could be assuming leaving it out as in hours or longer which is why I posted.

With regards to glass/acrylic, substrate, or pvc - personal preference. I prefer to place rocks on pvc so it is secure. I may, or may not, place substrate to the base of the rock. Some places I do, some I do not. Flow will move it around anyway but I like a bit more free flowing around the lower area of the display.

I don't know for certain, but I don't see it being cost effective to ship live rock submerged. I CAN tell you for a fact that I've ordered live rock very recently for a friend and it arrived in damp (not wet) paper towels and was that way for a 4 day shipping journey.

 

[jabberwock]

I think we need to first define "live rock". The stuff you buy at your LFS is "live rock", but only just barely. I recommend that you explore "real ocean live rock" for the win!

 

[Frigideus]

I think we need to first define "live rock". The stuff you buy at your LFS is "live rock", but only just barely. I recommend that you explore "real ocean live rock" for the win!

Going with TBS or GLR, probably. My problem with this is that they sell 'premium deco live rock' which I want to buy in addition to some base rock, but as I am setting up an uncycled tank wouldn't most of the stuff on the live rock die off? My LFS said that the live rock pre-cycles the tank when I use live rock, but I can never be sure how true it is when I ask the business themselves. I was always planning to use live rock or sand but as a first time reefer there is a level of discomfort when doing this, if for some reason my shipment arrives early I am afraid that I won't be ready (presumably due to work or other responsibilities) and it'll all die off. I guess I just don't know how alive 'alive' is and what it entails. I know doing dry with bottled bacteria would be easier but I am dead set on doing it this way.

 

[X-37B]

Going with TBS or GLR, probably. My problem with this is that they sell 'premium deco live rock' which I want to buy in addition to some base rock, but as I am setting up an uncycled tank wouldn't most of the stuff on the live rock die off? My LFS said that the live rock pre-cycles the tank when I use live rock, but I can never be sure how true it is when I ask the business themselves. I was always planning to use live rock or sand but as a first time reefer there is a level of discomfort when doing this, if for some reason my shipment arrives early I am afraid that I won't be ready (presumably due to work or other responsibilities) and it'll all die off. I guess I just don't know how alive 'alive' is and what it entails. I know doing dry with bottled bacteria would be easier but I am dead set on doing it this way.

My ext 170 with 150lbs premium GLR delivered to my door overnight and 1.5 years later.
If you can maintain a system get all premium.
Some die off will occur but mine was minimal. Still have 20+ bivalves.

 

[Tatted Reefer]

Going with TBS or GLR, probably. My problem with this is that they sell 'premium deco live rock' which I want to buy in addition to some base rock, but as I am setting up an uncycled tank wouldn't most of the stuff on the live rock die off? My LFS said that the live rock pre-cycles the tank when I use live rock, but I can never be sure how true it is when I ask the business themselves. I was always planning to use live rock or sand but as a first time reefer there is a level of discomfort when doing this, if for some reason my shipment arrives early I am afraid that I won't be ready (presumably due to work or other responsibilities) and it'll all die off. I guess I just don't know how alive 'alive' is and what it entails. I know doing dry with bottled bacteria would be easier but I am dead set on doing it this way.

The rock from TBS ships on a scheduled delivery date so you pick exactly what day it will be there. You can always pick up a brute trashcan, a cheap heater and a circulation pump. Put the live rock in there with some saltwater while you get everything lined up for the build. The rock will be absolutely fine in the brute for weeks probably. If you want to get crazy you could set up a light just for a photo period. Someone feel free to correct me if that's bad information.

 

[areefer01]

I don't know for certain, but I don't see it being cost effective to ship live rock submerged. I CAN tell you for a fact that I've ordered live rock very recently for a friend and it arrived in damp (not wet) paper towels and was that way for a 4 day shipping journey.

Cost effective is subjective. There are plenty of ways to implement live rock from quality sources such as TBS and KP. Just comes down to budgets.

My original rock I purchased back in 2000 was from Fiji, 2 day air, and yes - wrapped in newspaper. In todays climate we pay a premium for air freight. Just one of those things.

If it does not work for the hobbyist there are other options/methods. It does not change the fact that if I was paying that premium for TBS or KP live rock, submerged, that I would let it dry out. I would have a layout out or design in mind and work through a planned process to prevent any long term exposure the air.

 

[areefer01]

Going with TBS or GLR, probably. My problem with this is that they sell 'premium deco live rock' which I want to buy in addition to some base rock, but as I am setting up an uncycled tank wouldn't most of the stuff on the live rock die off?

TBS and KP ship in water. You pay more as a result but there is less die off compared to wet paper or towels. The aquaculture rock will help seed the dry rock. You can do a search on the web and see tanks that use only aquaculture rocks from KP or TBS, tanks that blend or mix, and then of course dry. I'm aware of GLR but have not used them - so can't speak to it. Of course one can take dry rock and cycle it by using a cup of sand from the LFS or rubble. X number of months later you will have reef ready rock.

The point is that there are multiple ways to go here. You just need to find one, or a combination of, that works best for you. Members here are to help or share experiences if they can.

 

[Rocks reef]

The rock from TBS ships on a scheduled delivery date so you pick exactly what day it will be there. You can always pick up a brute trashcan, a cheap heater and a circulation pump. Put the live rock in there with some saltwater while you get everything lined up for the build. The rock will be absolutely fine in the brute for weeks probably. If you want to get crazy you could set up a light just for a photo period. Someone feel free to correct me if that's bad information.

Definitely solid and sound advice!! Kudos!

 

[Rocks reef]

Probably your best bet moving forward is getting the tank up, plumbed and ready to go. Order your live rock on the delivery date of your choice. A couple days prior to delivery, have your SW mixed and waiting and have rinsed sand ready to go...that way when the rock arrives, you put rock in first then sand or vise versa and start filling.