Discussion in 'Battlecorals' started by Battlecorals, May 5, 2017.

YOUR CURIOUSLY INNOCENT NEGLIGENCE

I still spend a lot of time on the phone with fellow reefers who are having problems of the worst possible kind - and by that I mean - “head...
  1. raultsu

    raultsu Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    240
    So do you recommend taking the 2nd membrane out and leaving the canister empty? or take the canister out completely?
     

  2. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Hi there

    If you are running a dual membrane, it really depends if that are parallel or in serial configuration. I do believe a dual membrane system can work in parallel, but its in serial where we are squashing that waste ratio to as much as 1:1 where people run into problems.
     
  3. raultsu

    raultsu Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    240
    How do I check if its serial or parallel? I have the BRS 6 stage 150GPD which i believe is serial
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  4. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    probably serial then. Is the waste water from one feeding the second membrane?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  5. raultsu

    raultsu Active Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    240
    Yes. What would you advice me to do?
     
  6. Bouncingsoul39

    Bouncingsoul39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    973
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    We always used to say its either lighting or water. Always one of the other because that's what the coral is in and being exposed to. The points you listed as the go-to culprits "electricity" "metal" all also fit under "it's the water". They are in the water. Heavy metals and stray voltage are actually the most common coral killers. RO/DI problems usually end with various algae issues at worst. Just treating your RO/DI water with Seachem Prime will negate any chance of chlorine or chloramines geting into the tank and running carbon/phosguard/gfo will take care of the rest in addition to keeping your RO/DI putting out 0 TDS water. But even 0 TDS water is not 100% necessary for a reef tank. I've used Glacier machine water at 30 TDS without any problem for a long time. If you use a chaeto fuge, or an ATS, it will be even less of an issue. Doing regular partial water changes or occasionally running a poly filter also helps avoid the build-up of any nasties and this is where the Triton method fails over time. The best part of the Triton method, ICP testing give us less reason to have head scratching problems anymore and it does appear that many of the head scratchers people have been posting about have been related to heavy metal poisoning in one form or another.
     
  7. MLSReefer

    MLSReefer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2018
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    52
    I love that you used the SpectraPure UHE400 as your display. Great read and lots of good info. I know I will be buying from Battlecorals next time :)
     
    Battlecorals likes this.
  8. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Location:
    Wisconsin

    Well, I wont say you system is in immediate peril, but the risk of running the TFC's in serial configuration, and squashing that waste ratio is that the probability of fouling the second membrane is considerably higher. And that simply means a build up inside the membrane that can ruin it at best, and pollute your product water at worst. I have been saying it along with AZdesert rat a while now, that if one's aim with the dual membrane system is to save water, than the Spectrapure UHE systems are a much better option.

    Initial cost up front but they do run as efficiently as spectra-pure claims, and without sounding like a commercial, does dramatically increase the life of your prefilters as well, because you are running a lot less water through them. 1 gallon to 1, as opposed to 3 or 4 to 1.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  9. Forsaken77

    Forsaken77 Valuable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Dual membranes, imo, are just much tougher to work with and not worth the hassle it may cause.

    The concentrated tds on the 2nd membrane, it being much more difficult to flush properly, and the extreme build-up of creep are just a few reasons. A single membrane is much easier to work with and fix any potential issues that crop up. You save water, but exchange it for some additional potential headaches.

    Some people like them though, and that's fine. Definitely work better with a booster pump to flush with.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  10. Forsaken77

    Forsaken77 Valuable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    If you want to remove the 2nd membrane just take it out of the line and connect all of the outputs of the 2nd membrane to the 1st membrane. The side with 2 fittings on the housing is the output.
     
  11. Berlibee

    Berlibee ReefHacks Team R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    797
    Location:
    USA
    Nice read man, thanks for sharing.
     
    Battlecorals likes this.
  12. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Location:
    Wisconsin

    I do think stray voltage get's the blame a lot but I don't know that I agree it's actually the real culprit that often. Not at all what I'd consider a "common" cause of coral loss. Curious, what are you basing that assertion on?
     
  13. Bob Escher

    Bob Escher Welcome to Saltwatef R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Location:
    Nashotah Wisconsin
    BRS had a excellent video on your DI filters being used up completely and possibly letting ammonia going into the water. I didn’t that. So know I’m carefully replacing my DI filter ( I have the BRS six stage)
    In steps as soon as the first one reaches 90% used up I replace it with the second one and replace the second one with a new one.
     
    Battlecorals likes this.
  14. PSXerholic

    PSXerholic Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    Location:
    Houston
    Adam,
    very nice write up and so true ;-)
    We all tend sometimes to believe and hope the root cause is something obvious while the ugly truth is hidden but maybe simple to fix.

    The RODI seems to be a big influencing factor when it comes to issues in the tank.
    When I assess folks issues and I hear the RODI has only 1TDS, than it's already a red flag for me. So much undesired stuff comes into the tank that a RODI can't really withhold when carbon blocks and sand filters are saturated!

    Stray current, I stopped worrying about, since this is always there. I get only concerned when it hurts when touching the water, lol. But never saw a negative effect really. Well I don't run a ground probe!

    Also since I'm deeply into trace elements and minerals and water chemistry, this subject makes mostly 70% of the causes, from all the issues I've been looked into from own experience and many received from others.
    15% were roughly from nutrient issues and starvation, and about 10% actually from badly maintained RODI systems. I think 5% could be contributed to pathogens and diseases.

    Interesting is that issues of the incoming water is not clearly to be identified by the symptoms (except maybe Dino or Cyano issues), so the chain of actions to identify hopefully the root cause leading to a bad RODI system is extremely difficult and time consuming.

    It is great that you write these things to make people more aware of this sleeping risk.

    Thanks for that.
    -Andre
     
    Battlecorals likes this.
  15. Insane320

    Insane320 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    137
    Location:
    Clovis, CA
    Is there a cheaper system the one you suggested is 2400 dollars. I have the 6 stage 150 gallon BRS right now?
     
  16. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Insane320 likes this.
  17. dragon99

    dragon99 Valuable Member Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,927
    Likes Received:
    2,196
    Location:
    Texas
    Insane320 and Battlecorals like this.
  18. Battlecorals

    Battlecorals Aquaculturist R2R Supporter Gold Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,286
    Likes Received:
    5,653
    Location:
    Wisconsin
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page