Zero Nitrates + Zero Phosphates = DINOFLAGELLATES

[nickkohrn]

Well, I have dinoflagellates. I tested my nitrates and phosphates yesterday, and the results were zero for both. I understand that I need to raise my nitrates and phosphates, but I am not sure what I should be using to do so. I have been looking through the R2R forums, and I have seen recommendations to dose nitrates and phosphates, and I have seen recommendations for increasing the amount and frequency of feedings.

Is one method better than the other?

I have a 10g frag tank, and it's clear that my levels are too low because my corals are losing their coloration. I have been testing my water parameters over the last few days, and nitrates and phosphates are consistently showing readings of zero. I don't know what I should do.

 

[biophilia]

Well, I have dinoflagellates. I tested my nitrates and phosphates yesterday, and the results were zero for both. I understand that I need to raise my nitrates and phosphates, but I am not sure what I should be using to do so. I have been looking through the R2R forums, and I have seen recommendations to dose nitrates and phosphates, and I have seen recommendations for increasing the amount and frequency of feedings.

Is one method better than the other?

I have a 10g frag tank, and it's clear that my levels are too low because my corals are losing their coloration. I have been testing my water parameters over the last few days, and nitrates and phosphates are consistently showing readings of zero. I don't know what I should do.

Feeding alone can often work, but depending on how much anaerobic bacteria your system has to process the nitrate, you may end up seeing rapidly increasing PO4 but no increase in NO3 which was the case in my tank. I’d try feeding more (start slow) and if that doesn’t raise NO3 enough, pure sodium nitrate can be purchased online on the cheap. When my NO3 is too low, I usually add a little to my new water change water to bump it up a bit.

 

[nickkohrn]

Feeding alone can often work, but depending on how much anaerobic bacteria your system has to process the nitrate, you may end up seeing rapidly increasing PO4 but no increase in NO3 which was the case in my tank. I’d try feeding more (start slow) and if that doesn’t raise NO3 enough, pure sodium nitrate can be purchased online on the cheap. When my NO3 is too low, I usually add a little to my new water change water to bump it up a bit.

Okay, I will try feeding more first. Do you recommend a specific food, such as frozen, pellet, or flake?

 

[ycnibrc]

flake will add phosphate and nitrate to your tank quick and better than the rest.

 

[biophilia]

Okay, I will try feeding more first. Do you recommend a specific food, such as frozen, pellet, or flake?

If you google it, I think Randy Holmes-Farley has a write up on phosphate concentrations in various foods - but off the top of my head I would say feed more rinsed frozen foods over anything else. Some high quality pellets are also okay. Flake food can be really high in phosphates as well as powder foods like Reef Roids so feed that stuff sparingly or not at all until you figure out what the nutrient balance will be like.

 

[biophilia]

Another good option for a frag tank would be newly hatched or frozen baby brine shrimp since both a variety of corals and fish love it and live especially shouldnt add a ton of excess PO4

 

[Scubabum]

When I was battling Dino I used Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro to raise my levels.

 

[nickkohrn]

I picked up some LRS Reef Frenzy to see how things go. Luckily, I have three LFS’ that stock a lot of frozen foods.

How often would you suggest testing?

 

[nickkohrn]

When I was battling Dino I used Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro to raise my levels.

Thanks for the product names! I’ll do some research on them this evening.

 

[Crashjack]

For the same issue (a lot larger tank), I used Seachem Flourish Phosphorus and Nitrogen. These or similar products are easy to measure and then once you reach the levels you want, you can determine how much to add going forward to keep levels constant. You can’t really do that with food, and food can also raise ammonia.

 

[promptcritical]

What's your water change regimen?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Here’s the deal. It’s not that zeros make dinos , it’s that the good bacteria will die off without enough Po4 , (phosphate block) and other organisms take over , dino chrystophytes etc.

Most foods don’t contain a lot Po4 (shelled animals are more) but in general the food needs to be processed (pooped) by the fish to see a significant increase from them.

When I was battling Dino I used Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro to raise my levels.

This is the most effective way honestly.
Combined with Manual removal (uv peroxide toothbrush with canister filter etc) dosing of multiple bacterial strains (IMO dr tims one and only ), avoidance of coral foods and additives high in amino acids and dry skimming. Somtimes skipping water changes helps to keep nutrients in the tank.

 

[Ferrell]

Over the course of 6 weeks, one item at a time
I fed more, nothing
I changed my felt socks less, nothing
I went to mesh socks, barely had test color
I tuned skimmer down (drier), a little help
I dosed neonitrate in small small doses, now it’s up to two which works for me. Test every 3 days and dose as necessary. I only have three fish and hope once tangs get through QT I won’t have this problem anymore. Fish poop is best and free!

 

[Rich Klein]

For the same issue (a lot larger tank), I used Seachem Flourish Phosphorus and Nitrogen. These or similar products are easy to measure and then once you reach the levels you want, you can determine how much to add going forward to keep levels constant. You can’t really do that with food, and food can also raise ammonia.

+1

 

[._Z_.]

Any update from OP?

avoidance of coral foods and additives high in amino acids

Can you elaborate on why avoiding amino acids? I just started dosing acro power and I’m wondering if I should stop as I continue my battle with dinos. (They tend to come again go for me.)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Any update from OP?



Can you elaborate on why avoiding amino acids? I just started dosing acro power and I’m wondering if I should stop as I continue my battle with dinos. (They tend to come again go for me.)

They , like corals can metabolise them directly.

 

[shred5]

In my opinion it is not just low nutrients. Plenty of low nutrient tanks have no dinos. First of all the dino could be using up the nutrients and adding more nutrients can fuel them if there is nothing to compete with them.
There is no doubt Dino's can survive in low nutrients. I think why we see them now is all this dead rock we use has no biodiversity. Basically nothing to compete with the dino's.

My last tank I set up with dead rock got dino's. I had three rock islands in this tank. I dropped a piece of live rock on one of the islands of dead rock and within a week you could see the dinos disappearing right around the rock. Not to much longer and the island had none and the other two had dino's disappearing closest to the other island. I wish I would have taken pictures. There has not been one spot of dino's in this tank now in a long time.

Personally adding a fuge with algae and adding nutrients should work and has worked for me before. With higher nutrient levels the algae in a fuge should be able to out compete the dino's..
I have used this method before.
I shoot for 5 ppm nitrate and .02 to .03 phosphate.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

In my opinion it is not just low nutrients. Plenty of low nutrient tanks have no dinos. First of all the dino could be using up the nutrients and adding more nutrients can fuel them if there is nothing to compete with them.
There is no bout Dino's can survive in low nutrients. I think why we see them now is all this dead rock we use has no biodiversity. Basically nothing to compete with the dino's.

My last tank I set up with dead rock got dino's. I had three rock islands in this tank. I dropped a piece of live rock on one of the islands of dead rock and within a week you could see the dinos disappearing right around the rock. Not to much longer and the island had none and the other two had dino's disappearing closest to the other island. I wish I would have taken pictures. There has not been one spot of dino's in this tank now in a long time.

Personally adding a fuge with algae and adding nutrients should work and has worked for me before. With higher nutrient levels the algae in a fuge should be able to out compete the dino's..
I have used this method before.
I shoot for 5 ppm nitrate and .02 to .03 phosphate.

Some folks do experience phosphate block as the nitrifying bacteria die and dino and others take over.
The dino is actually what’s processing the ammonia.

Another remedy I like is to add Walt smiths Fiji mud. Macro diversity.