Tired of fighting phosphates. About to call it quits.

[jda]

Rocks bind and unbind po4. They do not leach or absorb it. There are rules with binding and unbinding, so once you understand them you can solve the problem. The rock does not just soak up po4 at will and then let it go whenever it wants. You have to raise the water column level for the rocks/sand to BIND more and then lower the water column level for the rocks and sand to UNBIND it.

There could be 500x, or more, po4 bound up in the rocks and sand than there is in the water column. Nobody knows since surface area is a huge part of this and all aragonite has different surface area structures.

 

[QuinnLee512]

Aside from softies, my corals die. That's why I want to get the phosphate down. I can't keep gonis, torches, duncans, or elegance alive.

 

[Joe462]

Aside from softies, my corals die. That's why I want to get the phosphate down. I can't keep gonis, torches, duncans, or elegance alive.

If your source water had 0.12 po4, it probably had a lot of other bad stuff. Make sure you are starting with good water, 0 TDS and work from there. Gonis, torches and especially elegance are difficult corals to keep sometimes. Your water parameters need to be good and stable. Its going to take a while to get your phosphate down as others mentioned the rock and sand can hold a lot of it. Use good water with no phosphates, run GFO in an appropriate reactor, change it out regularly so that its not exhausted, don't feed more than your fish can eat in a couple minutes and be patient and it will come down.

 

[aSaltyKlown]

Rocks bind and unbind po4. They do not leach or absorb it. There are rules with binding and unbinding, so once you understand them you can solve the problem. The rock does not just soak up po4 at will and then let it go whenever it wants. You have to raise the water column level for the rocks/sand to BIND more and then lower the water column level for the rocks and sand to UNBIND it.

I had to look it up as I've always used leach/absorb and used it interchangeably with bind/unbind. I see that there is a huge difference. Not sure if the comment was from my post or not, but thanks for the correction.

Does rock and substrate bind/unbind po4 until it is at equilibrium with what's in the water column? As I understood, the po4 can be bound to the substrate and rock until it can't bind anymore and that is what makes it rise in the water. Or am I off in that thinking? No need for a big explanation reply as I don't want to derail the thread. I'll need to do some more research; I had thought I had mostly understood.

 

[exnisstech]

Phosphate back up to. 55. Nitrates at 6.2. I haven't fed fish in 3 days. So frustrating. Where is all this phosphate coming from?!

People through out this post have been telling you that PO4 at your levels is not your problem but you don't seem to want to listen. I don't know what your problem is but am confident I know what it isn't. Those measurements are not causing your problems. My most successful tank runs PO4 0.4 - 0.6 and NO3 15-20 ppm and everything is thriving.

Aside from softies, my corals die. That's why I want to get the phosphate down. I can't keep gonis, torches, duncans, or elegance alive.

I've only been doing this a little over 8 years but I have never been able to keep torches, elegance, or goni alive in any of my tanks. I've had limited success with Duncans. But I can keep acros so I don't get it I just accept it. Some stuff just will not live in everyone's tanks.

 

[jda]

Does rock and substrate bind/unbind po4 until it is at equilibrium with what's in the water column?

Yup. If your water level po4 stays stable, the rock will not do anything. You lower the water column level, then the rock will unbind... raise the water column and it will bind more.

The whole point is that there are rules, expectations and things with binding.

There are many corals that will suffer as po4 rises. Many other corals do not care at all. Some folks could have plenty good reasons to lower po4 for what they want to keep when others suggest that there are no issues when they keep other kinds. Even with something like Zoas, there are many old school vanities that start to melt when po4 gets up to .1 and have disappeared from the hobby some. Although most zoas don't care, so do.

 

[bakbay]

I've only been doing this a little over 8 years but I have never been able to keep torches, elegance, or goni alive in any of my tanks. I've had limited success with Duncans. But I can keep acros so I don't get it I just accept it. Some stuff just will not live in everyone's tanks.

That's interesting. I've been able to keep pretty much everything in my tanks...even the nem-dominant tank. That said, I have not tried elegance & gonis lately. Gonis didn't survive more than a year in my previous tank but then -- that was almost a decade ago! lol

 

[exnisstech]

That's interesting. I've been able to keep pretty much everything in my tanks...even the nem-dominant tank. That said, I have not tried elegance & gonis lately. Gonis didn't survive more than a year in my previous tank but then -- that was almost a decade ago! lol

I just can't keep them alive. $400 torch dead in a week. Waited a year and tried a $50 tester torch. Dead in less than a week. Elegance did good for about 6 months then died. Same results with the second elegance. Forget about goni. I can't even keep aquacultured ones alive more than a couple of months. It used to drive me crazy trying to figure it out then I decided to just accept it. If it were not just one piece but many I would spend some time trying to locate the problem but if just one piece struggles I don't change things trying to get a single piece to thrive and risk upsetting everything else in the tank that is happy. Nothing is as much fun as getting up in the morning a seeing your favorite acro turned white overnight when it looked great the night before

 

[aSaltyKlown]

I don't change things trying to get a single piece to thrive and risk upsetting everything else in the tank that is happy.

This needs to be said more often.

 

[KrisReef]

I just can't keep them alive. $400 torch dead in a week. Waited a year and tried a $50 tester torch. Dead in less than a week. Elegance did good for about 6 months then died. Same results with the second elegance. Forget about goni. I can't even keep aquacultured ones alive more than a couple of months. It used to drive me crazy trying to figure it out then I decided to just accept it. If it were not just one piece but many I would spend some time trying to locate the problem but if just one piece struggles I don't change things trying to get a single piece to thrive and risk upsetting everything else in the tank that is happy. Nothing is as much fun as getting up in the morning a seeing your favorite acro turned white overnight when it looked great the night before

Have you done an ICP test to see if there is something "there?"

OP may need the same information to find a root cause, presuming it is testable with ICP.

 

[exnisstech]

Have you done an ICP test to see if there is something "there?"

OP may need the same information to find a root cause, presuming it is testable with ICP.

I have and nothing stood out. Well one thing stood out. The fact that I received totally different results from 2 RODI samples from the same container of water was an attention grabber. Kinda lost my confidence in the results at that point.

 

[bobnicaragua]

This is a long thread for such a common issue. I would do a few water changes to get your phosphates down, then switch to frozen foods instead of pellets.

My nutrients tend to run really low with felt filter socks. Mechanical filtration makes a big difference.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Aside from softies, my corals die. That's why I want to get the phosphate down. I can't keep gonis, torches, duncans, or elegance alive.

That has nothing to do with Phosphate.

 

[bobnicaragua]

That has nothing to do with Phosphate.

Some of my acros brown out and I start to get some STN issue when my phosphates get above .25 -.3 Some of the corals don’t seem to mind higher phosphate much.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Some of my acros brown out and I start to get some STN issue when my phosphates get above .25 -.3 Some of the corals don’t seem to mind higher phosphate much.

My above post was incomplete, dunno how it posted Must not type while eating breakfast in future...

My actual post was supposed to say that while high PO4 may affect some coral health, in my experience it does not cause any problems in an established stable tank.

I believe that the problems being experienced by the OP are caused by something else.

 

[QuinnLee512]

I appreciate everyone's response but people talking about whether phosphates being high is an issue or not or if it's what's killing my corals doesn't help me or what I'm after. All my parameters are within range with the exception of phosphates. .5 is way above what's universally accepted isn't it?

 

[jhadaway]

I have found that for my 15g nano and my 100.3g, pellets equal algae. Ryan from brs says if you think about it, pellets are mostly concentrated protien. Anything uneaten breaks down as lots of nutrients. Frozen foods are mostly water. Uneaten frozen foods turn into mostly water. I mixed a few different frozen foods in a small Tupperware cup and add some vitamins. I give them 1 tweezer pinch at a time until its gone for 2-3 minuttes. My 2 nano clowns get formula 1 frozen food. I only use pellets when im not home. It makes a huge difference.

 

[QuinnLee512]

Someone tell me if this is flawed. I had phosphates in my rodi water. I changed the filters. Pellets also contributed. That answers my question of where po4 was coming from. Since I've changed my filters, the water is now good. Now I just need to make frequent water changes so that the po4 unbinds from the rocks and sand?

 

[KrisReef]

Someone tell me if this is flawed. I had phosphates in my rodi water. I changed the filters. Pellets also contributed. That answers my question of where po4 was coming from. Since I've changed my filters, the water is now good. Now I just need to make frequent water changes so that the po4 unbinds from the rocks and sand?

Theory is good, but in practice if you have a lot of P binding on your substrates it may take many, many water changes to lower P with water changes only.

I would try a few water changes and see if you want to get more aggressive with removal.

 

[QuinnLee512]

Theory is good, but in practice if you have a lot of P binding on your substrates it may take many, many water changes to lower P with water changes only.

I would try a few water changes and see if you want to get more aggressive with removal.

Well I've also been dosing 2ml lanthanum chloride daily with no effect. Was also planning on using gfo.