#1 WHAT IF I TOLD YOU... Ammonia is causing your algae problems?

After this, there is no turning back.

You take the blue pill - the story ends, you keep believing that nitrate and phosphate are the cause of your algae problems.

You take the red pill - I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.



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This image was created by @Fish_Sticks, ©2019, All Rights Reserved.

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What if I told you...that ammonia was causing your algae problems?

Remember that parameter that nobody ever talks about? The one that you checked years ago when you first set up your tank? Well guess what. Ammonia is produced every millisecond your tank is up. Whether it is being used by the bacteria, or the algae, is an entirely different story.

Why do you have algae? It's plain and simple, don't let anyone fool you.

Your tank is dirty; maybe not chemically, but physically.

Nitrate levels around 10-20 are perfectly fine. Phosphates don't even really matter that much. Algae doesn't even really like nitrogen, what they do love, is ammonia!

For algae to use nitrogen, they must convert it into ammonia.

Algae love ammonia because it is less work for algae to consume ammonia than nitrogen.

When detritus (fish crap & uneaten food) breaks down into ammonia, the ammonia is usually taken up by the bacteria in your rock; however, because algae use ammonia very efficiently, algae can use ammonia before the bacteria have a chance. This causes some bacteria to die off and for the algae to get worse over time.

Can you see how this would create a snowball effect?

Your algae is essentially taking over your bacteria.

This gets even worse because the algae also contributes to clogging up your rock and taking up valuable surface area that bacteria need to live. Algae can overtake your bacteria when it comes to using ammonia. Think you can keep reducing your nitrates into oblivion and starving your corals in hopes your algae will magically disappear? Think again. Your tank is dirty.

But I've written an algae outbreak reaction strategy
. This method will really knock your socks off.

___________________________________________________________________

The algae control outbreak reaction strategy
as prescribed by fish_sticks.

The rules of algae management:


1. Do not make sudden changes, do not use hydrogen peroxide, do not turn off your lights and perform a tank blackout (this is not only bad for your corals, but your fish), or do anything that would be described as a fast fix. These strategies do not work long term. As soon as you stop dosing, as soon as you turn back on the lights, the algae will come back. These are foolish strategies.

2. Patience. Understand that it will take a few weeks or even a month to fix the problem. This hobby is based on the slowest changing thing in the world, the ocean. Patience is required to achieve success in the hobby.

3. Algae is not a bad thing. Sure it's ugly, but it's not going to crash your tank in a few weeks. Every single tank on the planet has algae, there is no way to get rid of it. The secret that nobody talks about is that you never get rid of algae, you control algae.

4. During this process, you should be manually removing algae from the tank when it reaches high levels or when it threatens the well being of your corals and fish.

5. Do not do too much too fast. Take things slow and focus on changing your habits. The algae will dissipate with time if you perform a responsible maintenance routine. Plus, fish love a little snack of fresh grown algae, they are probably having a ball while they watch you run around like a crazy person changing a hundred things on the tank and ruining the balance of the ecosystem.

6. This outbreak reaction strategy
assumes that you aren't running your lights for longer than 14/16 hours. Although algae likes light, it cannot survive on just light. If you have a dirty tank, you can grow algae with lights on for only a few hours a day. Fix the real problem.

7. Do not add more snails, shrimp, fish or other animals to the system to FIX your algae, initially. You should already be running a tank with these inhabitants, otherwise nicknamed the Clean Up Crew (CUC). These animals will bring your ecosystem full circle, and play an important role in turning algae back into food for bacteria.

AFTER you've addressed the detritus build up issue, consider readdressing your stock list to include more CUC members, such as snails, shrimps, gobies, and everybody's favorite fish, the lawnmower blenny.

8. Do not go overboard with detritus removal. Your existing bacteria and corals need decaying detritus to remain healthy. The focus is not to starve your algae into oblivion, but to control the algae so bacteria have a chance to repopulate and take the algae's place. Bacteria repopulation is our main objective, not total detritus removal, not 0-5 nitrates, not 0 phosphates, not low ammonia production, as those are inherently unhealthy and now finally dated practices.

Why do you have algae? It's plain and simple, don't let anyone fool you.

Your tank is dirty; maybe not chemically, but physically.

Nitrate levels around 10-20 are perfectly fine. Phosphates don't even really matter that much. Algae doesn't even really like nitrogen, what they do love, is ammonia!

For algae to use nitrogen, they must convert it into ammonia.

Algae love ammonia because it is less work for algae to consume ammonia than nitrogen.

When detritus (fish crap & uneaten food) breaks down into ammonia, the ammonia is usually taken up by the bacteria in your rock; however, because algae use ammonia very efficiently, algae can use ammonia before the bacteria have a chance. This causes some bacteria to die off and for the algae to get worse over time.

Can you see how this would create a snowball effect?

Your algae is essentially taking over your bacteria.

This gets even worse because the algae also contributes to clogging up your rock and taking up valuable surface area that bacteria need to live. Algae can overtake your bacteria when it comes to using ammonia. Think you can keep reducing your nitrates into oblivion and starving your corals in hopes your algae will magically disappear? Think again. Your tank is dirty.

So, if you remove the detritus, you solve your algae problems. Don't let anyone fool you otherwise!

Where is the detritus?

It can be in the holes and pores of your rock.


Fix: use a turkey baster to blast out only a few rocks per day, overtime your equipment (skimmer or filter socks) will collect the detritus. You also create more surface area for bacteria to live inside the rocks.

It can be in your sand bed.

Fix: Vacuum out your sand bed with a gravel vacuum. This can and should be done on a regular basis during your routine water changes, and you kill two birds with one stone; changing the water, and cleaning detritus! I like to vacuum out with my right hand, hold the end of the hose with my left, and control the flow of water in the siphon hose with my left hand fingers.

It can be in your equipment.

Fix: Clean your equipment on a regular basis, check any sponges, filter floss, pumps, wavemaker suction cups. Detritus can get lodged anywhere.

It can be in your sump.

Fix: I like to suck it up with a turkey baster. The best part about the baster is you can use it to blow water out, or suck things up.

It can be in your macroalgae (if you're growing macroalgae).

Fix: After a small 1G water change, just shake out your chaeto macroalgae in your water-change water.

Great so now I can go crazy cleaning my tank right?

Not so fast. Doing too much at one time can cause your tank to crash. Only do a fair amount of maintenance a day. Doing much more than your equipment can handle will cause your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate production to rise too much too fast. This is not so much about getting rid of the algae as much as it is improving your maintenance habits. If you fix your habits, the algae will be under control; and stay under control.

How do I avoid detritus buildup?

Well if you look around your tank, I'm sure you can find dead spots where water isn't flowing very well. See if you can find some dead spots and fix them.

If you have a powerhead pointed directly at a rock, it's gonna lodge a bunch of crud into there.

But I have friends coming over and I want my tank to look nice fast.

That's just too bad. The algae has be slowly gaining power overtime and getting stronger and stronger though weeks of work because you have detritus build up. If you think you can fix all that in one or two weeks, then you're out of luck.

But I have super duper deadly bryopsis, cotton candy algae, (insert buzzword terrible evil algae here, AHHHH NITRATES ARE AT 11 PPM IM GONNA DIE, I NEED TO USE PHOSBAN ASAP. IM NEVER GONNA FEED MY FISH AGAIN!!!! MAYBE I NEED TO RIP OUT ALL MY ROCK AND TOSS IN IN BLEACH !!!! OR JUST CHANGE MY T5 BULBS AND IT WILL GO AWAY AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!)

Calm dowwwwwn. So what. All algae does the same thing. They feed off the ammonia produced by the detritus in your aquarium. You can carefully physically remove the algae just like normal, remain calm, don't do anything too fast, don't result to stupid quick fixes, and follow the algae outbreak reaction strategy
.

Lots and lots of people are gonna tell you otherwise, but that's not their fault. They don't know any better.

This is your tank.

You've been given the algae outbreak reaction strategy
. Follow the rules. If you don't use it, your tank will only have you to blame, not random people on the forums who suggested you try a couple of foolish quick fixes in a hobby based entirely on patience; based around the slowest changing thing in the entire world, the ocean.

_______________________________________________________

It's too late to turn back, you've already taken the red pill.

Good luck...
~~~~~~~~~~~
BONUS 100 Comments summary (You should still go read the comments!)

Much was discussed, but a key focus of the discussion were different overall tank maintenance strategies.

This is an algae outbreak reaction strategy. Much different from an overall tank strategy.

Hopefully this will clear up any uncertainty that this should be a regular weekly tank routine. The last thing I want is for people to go to their tank that is performing well and suck out every last bit of detritus. I practice a hands off as much as possible approach to my overall tank strategy.

There are plenty of people who do this as a routine every month or every couple of weeks and that is fine if it works for them and helps their tank achieve balance. I believe these are mainly people who have an imbalanced bioload to filtration ratio, do not have a sump, high powered skimmer, or very much live rock to improve their bacterial filter and buffer against an algae epidemic. The ultimate goal is to have a balanced tank without having to occasionally export detritus, at least not every month. And remember, manageable amounts of algae are a good thing! Detritus is also a good thing, it is the life source for your tank!

From what has been mentioned in the discussions, it sounds like the answer lies in the hands of a balanced stock list, a good clean up crew, a good amount of healthy rock (im sure a little rock basting every now and again is a good thing ;) ), and a balanced bioload/bacteria surface ratio. If you have all these things, you have a foundation for success and shouldn't have a need to export detritus - at least not every other month.

If by some chance you have all these good things and you're facing a huge algae outbreak, the answer may be to follow the algae outbreak control strategy and wait to see how your tank reacts... Then consider necessary adjustments to your overall tank strategy, your stock list, clean up crew, and re read the steps and other threads for inspiration on what could be altered to help your tank reach balance...

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Author Profile: @Fish_Sticks

With a decade of experience keeping small ponds, arrays of juvenile wild caught freshwater species, freshwater planted aquariums, and reefs, my aim is to spark interesting and productive discussions in hopes that we each learn something new. In addition to patience, getting involved in discussions is the best way to find success with your reef!

Thank you all for reading this article and contributing to the discussions. For more interesting stuff, check out my build thread and see how I run a low cost 210 gallon reef ;Greedy;Greedy;Greedy:
BANG 4 UR BUCK [NEW] 210G - The biggest tank I could fit in my office, oh, and they deliver for $50
When you mention algae, obviously you’re talking about the nuisance kind. But what about coraline algae? Does it also thrive off of ammonia? If so, shouldn’t I be trying promote coraline algae from day 1 of my cycle? I have bottles of coraline spores and have been waiting for cycle to be well underway before adding cause I have been afraid they would just die off. Could I go ahead and add em? Could it be more successful now than if I waited? Currently on day 6 and ammonia is at 0.5
 
they will not die, you can add the coralline spores.

they come with cycling bac included on each bottle I have seen anyway, and it wouldn't be possible to culture coralline spores/flecks of actual coralline and separate them from filtration bacteria attached to them anyway. by rule, where goes coralline cycle bacteria already went.
 
testing the utility of this thread beyond just theory:

show me ten reef tanks with bad algae before, who fixed algae by managing ammonia in any way.
 
testing the utility of this thread beyond just theory:

show me ten reef tanks with bad algae before, who fixed algae by managing ammonia in any way.
Isn’t “rip clean” one of many ways to remove compounds that release ammonia? Maybe look at some of your work threads
 
testing the utility of this thread beyond just theory:

show me ten reef tanks with bad algae before, who fixed algae by managing ammonia in any way.
IMHO - there are so many variables that go into algae growth - that trying to manage it with 'nutrient measurements' is impossible. Why? Because -even with "0" ammonia, there can still be a lot of algae in a tank. So - the measurement becomes useless. Second ammonia is utilized (as far as I know) much more rapidly by bacteria in a tank - as compared to algae - bacteria - especially heterotrophs grow much faster than algae. So - a '0 ammonia' just means that bacteria and some algae are using it up at the same rate it's being produced. 3. Algae don't JUST use ammonia - they can also use nitrates (which is why we have algae reactors - that reduce nitrates). 4. I'm not sure you can 'manage' ammonia - except by having no fish, or other feeding, etc. So the question you're asking is impossible. But again - my guess is that if you took 10 tanks filled with algae - that were fed just with ammonia. If you stopped feeding ammonia, the algae would decrease (some). Of course this would be quite a boring aquarium - since there would be no invertebrates of fish.
 
IMHO - there are so many variables that go into algae growth - that trying to manage it with 'nutrient measurements' is impossible. Why? Because -even with "0" ammonia, there can still be a lot of algae in a tank. So - the measurement becomes useless. Second ammonia is utilized (as far as I know) much more rapidly by bacteria in a tank - as compared to algae - bacteria - especially heterotrophs grow much faster than algae. So - a '0 ammonia' just means that bacteria and some algae are using it up at the same rate it's being produced. 3. Algae don't JUST use ammonia - they can also use nitrates (which is why we have algae reactors - that reduce nitrates). 4. I'm not sure you can 'manage' ammonia - except by having no fish, or other feeding, etc. So the question you're asking is impossible. But again - my guess is that if you took 10 tanks filled with algae - that were fed just with ammonia. If you stopped feeding ammonia, the algae would decrease (some). Of course this would be quite a boring aquarium - since there would be no invertebrates of fish.
I will have to disagree with some of what you said, I recently learned that heterotrophic bacteria can’t use ammonia directly, they can reduce ammonia only by reducing organic matter, less organics matter = to less organics decomposing in a system releasing ammonia. In addition ammonia is always present in a system although the levels are often so low that one could only determine the amount by using spectrophotometry.
the main users of ammonia are nitrifying bacteria and all photosynthetic organisms. This can be explained further if you wish to discuss it :)
 
I was legit interested in ways to fix algae for large tanks not involving a rip clean/ impractical for large tankers.

fluconazole can do it/per the 600 page thread/but it's downside is 490 pages of tradeoff dinos and cyano invasion for the same # of months the GHA originally held. I'd like to see the pros and cons of this particular management approach to algae. at page 12/we have none/let's get someone trying it to watch for outcome trending.
 
I will have to disagree with some of what you said, I recently learned that heterotrophic bacteria can’t use ammonia directly, they can reduce ammonia only by reducing organic matter, less organics matter = to less organics decomposing in a system releasing ammonia. In addition ammonia is always present in a system although the levels are often so low that one could only determine the amount by using spectrophotometry.
the main users of ammonia are nitrifying bacteria and all photosynthetic organisms. This can be explained further if you wish to discuss it :)
Sure - where did you learn it? EDIT - PS - either way - they reduce organic matter far faster than algae would use ammonia, right?
 
I was legit interested in ways to fix algae for large tanks not involving a rip clean/ impractical for large tankers.

bacterial “rip clean” can be used in any size tank, your normal method of cleaning a tank has some science to it if you were to try and research it, if you were to do it, you would learn that the same can be done by stimulating heterotrophic bacteria with the “right” type of carbon source.
 
Sixty, if you will build and manager using other people's tank a 50 page work thread showing carbon dosing attaining this same outcome, we'll be set:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/

we need solely other people's reefs in the work thread, none can be the author's

what carbon dosing will get you in a large work thread designed to fix algae is a big huge mess, and 5% lucky algae cures/is the bet.


***I still want something other than rip cleans to work, honestly large tankers can't practically run those. we only get several large tanks there because they're either moving or upgrading/forced to deep dive in.

that's solid algae control above as a side pattern from having to deep dive into reefs.



agreed on prior science existing: backflusing filters at zoos and marine parks is rip cleaning a filter using no bottle bac and ejecting all waste. we've been backflushing reefs this whole time vs filters :)
 
Sure - where did you learn it? EDIT - PS - either way - they reduce organic matter far faster than algae would use ammonia, right?
Right, using certain carbon sources we can stimulate the growth of heterotrophic decomposers that will reduce ammonia by trapping nutrients into their body mass. I’ve learned on that experience that I was doing on the research forum, not posted results as some folks were being annoying. There is also a peer reviewed paper from biofloc that goes further on the details
 
I will have to disagree with some of what you said, I recently learned that heterotrophic bacteria can’t use ammonia directly, they can reduce ammonia only by reducing organic matter, less organics matter = to less organics decomposing in a system releasing ammonia. In addition ammonia is always present in a system although the levels are often so low that one could only determine the amount by using spectrophotometry.
the main users of ammonia are nitrifying bacteria and all photosynthetic organisms. This can be explained further if you wish to discuss it :)
PS: "At high carbon to nitrogen (C/N) feed ratios, heterotrophic bacteria will assimilate ammonia–nitrogen directly into cellular protein." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004484860600216X
 
Right, using certain carbon sources we can stimulate the growth of heterotrophic decomposers that will reduce ammonia by trapping nutrients into their body mass. I’ve learned on that experience that I was doing on the research forum, not posted results as some folks were being annoying. There is also a peer reviewed paper from biofloc that goes further on the details
There are also heterotrophic bacteria that are not just 'decomposers'. In a sense all bacteria are decomposers. Point being - I don't think you can say that the only way heterotrophs use ammonia is by decomposing organic material (which implies - to me), detritus, etc - as compared to carbon compounds dissolved in the water. Right?
 
Right, using certain carbon sources we can stimulate the growth of heterotrophic decomposers that will reduce ammonia by trapping nutrients into their body mass. I’ve learned on that experience that I was doing on the research forum, not posted results as some folks were being annoying. There is also a peer reviewed paper from biofloc that goes further on the details
No - thats not what the article says. It says ammonia can be directly incorporated into proteins. It does not say trapping nutrients and converting it to ammonia - with certain C/N parameters. Of course - ammonia has to be produced by 'something', right? probably other bacteria and decomposing 'stuff' or fish waste. But - the point is - if you add heterotrophic bacteria to a tank - as shown in @Dr. Reef 's experiments with ammonia and a PO4 source - the ammonia level drops.
 
@Fish_Sticks

can you begin finding invasion help threads, directing them to this thread, then managing them here live time using this approach pls
 
There are also heterotrophic bacteria that are not just 'decomposers'. In a sense all bacteria are decomposers. Point being - I don't think you can say that the only way heterotrophs use ammonia is by decomposing organic material (which implies - to me), detritus, etc - as compared to carbon compounds dissolved in the water. Right?
That’s the problem in trying to explain this to folks that are used to carbon dose to lower no3 and po4, if a source of organic carbon is used it will stimulate decomposer over nitrate oxidising bacteria if dissolved organic carbon is used it will stimulate nitrate oxidising bacteria over decomposers, different types of carbon and different stages will stimulate different heterotrophic bacteria.
depending on the end goal the carbon source has to be changed, for example we cannot use ethanol to stimulate decomposers although we can use carbohydrates for that.

mas you mentioned organic carbon will eventually dissolve in water and stimulate nitrate oxidising heterotrophic bacteria, this is a double end sword kind of situation as to lower organic nutrients with carbon eventually one will by effect lower nitrates and some phosphates although it’s fairly easily corrected by dosing nitrates
 
That’s the problem in trying to explain this to folks that are used to carbon dose to lower no3 and po4, if a source of organic carbon is used it will stimulate decomposer over nitrate oxidising bacteria if dissolved organic carbon is used it will stimulate nitrate oxidising bacteria over decomposers, different types of carbon and different stages will stimulate different heterotrophic bacteria.
depending on the end goal the carbon source has to be changed, for example we cannot use ethanol to stimulate decomposers although we can use carbohydrates for that.

mas you mentioned organic carbon will eventually dissolve in water and stimulate nitrate oxidising heterotrophic bacteria, this is a double end sword kind of situation as to lower organic nutrients with carbon eventually one will by effect lower nitrates and some phosphates although it’s fairly easily corrected by dosing nitrates
My point was - I think - given all the variables - its next to impossible to rid a tank of algae using bacteria. CNP ratios, etc. IMHO - if you rank the importance of all of these things - unless it's an extremely dirty tank, the causes would be 1) Too much free surface area. 2) The lack of natural predators. 3) poor water/maintenence in general - and 4 distantly behind - a certain ratio of CNP. How to prove that? If you take one of those really nice show tanks - covered with SPS, and very little light getting to the rock below - does nuisance algae grow? Not in my experience. It is tanks with 10 small frags - and 100x bare rock where algae is much more of a problem.
 
Sixty, if you will build and manager using other people's tank a 50 page work thread showing carbon dosing attaining this same outcome, we'll be set:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/

we need solely other people's reefs in the work thread, none can be the author's

what carbon dosing will get you in a large work thread designed to fix algae is a big huge mess, and 5% lucky algae cures/is the bet.


***I still want something other than rip cleans to work, honestly large tankers can't practically run those. we only get several large tanks there because they're either moving or upgrading/forced to deep dive in.

that's solid algae control above as a side pattern from having to deep dive into reefs.



agreed on prior science existing: backflusing filters at zoos and marine parks is rip cleaning a filter using no bottle bac and ejecting all waste. we've been backflushing reefs this whole time vs filters :)
I prefer to work on my own system, I wouldn’t trust for folks with limited knowledge (no offence) to understand something so complicated.
 
you mean they might not trust you to work their systems? you wouldn't have any trust issues unless it was your tank needing help


it seems a work thread with repeating outcomes using other people's systems is the best way to define knowledge vs luck

its not possible to go for fifty pages on luck.
 
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