120 gallon rip clean

[CoralClasher]

No Dino bloom yet.

 

[mestorm121]

What's the name of your green coral in this picture? I have one and cant remember the name

 

[CoralClasher]

What's the name of your green coral in this picture? I have one and cant remember the name

I believe it’s a chalice? It has long sweepers that come out at night.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I do not recall a more thorough preventative care thread, taking action before troubles

Our entire hobby is reactive in nature, many products available for us to pay for when dealing in reactions

We have been instructed thats reefs run best hands off... an entire retail industry has offsets for that advice as reefs age

this opts you out, trading calories burned in reef tank gardening for longevity and fish health, I can’t wait to see what fish disease experts think of the big picture here regarding preventative tank and fish care. A change away from typical reef procedure is here for longevity tracking.

Interesting thread... I was doing this almost twenty years ago, but no one was telling me not to. We weren't all as well connected back then either. It just made sense to me and the results only ever reinforced me too keep doing it. Looks like I'll continue that practice as needed.

 

[CoralClasher]

Interesting thread... I was doing this almost twenty years ago, but no one was telling me not to. We weren't all as well connected back then either. It just made sense to me and the results only ever reinforced me too keep doing it. Looks like I'll continue that practice as needed.

When the rip clean is done properly I definitely like the results. How often have you done a full cleaning? Did you use all new water? I’m planning my next rip clean soon and would like to avoid a Dino bloom if possible.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I had a long break from reefing and am just jumping back in. I had a 40 breeder up for about 5 years and I did a rip clean on it every 1 or two years as you illustrated in your thread here. Most times I kept about 75% of the tank water as you and that other guy described, it's a preventative thing not a reactive measure in desperation, so why throw away good expensive water? I never did struggle much with dinos, maybe had one outbreak ever, but I had only ever used live rock and fed healthy, always felt i had good bacterial diversity... I did occasionally battle some macro algae but did the usual to attack that and get it managed.
My tank just glowed for months after, never had any casualties as a result of the 'invasive' technique. Fish and Corals into their own buckets as you described, rocks into their own. Had a separate bin to swirl the rocks around the remove any loose detritus from the removal process so as to minimize it's re-introduction into the newly scrubbed tank. That seemed to help. For the life of me I can't recall if i chucked new rinsed aragonite into the tank or rinsed my old crap lol, but either way... I was surprised that @brandon429 was going on about how it's a very unpopular thought process currently. I guess I had no information about it one way or the other, it's just something I was doing on my own in a vacuum at the time.

 

[brandon429]

Rob in my opinion this practice died out/slowly coming back due to a 20 year reliance gap for the hobby on what API ammonia says, regardless of any other indicator that ammonia is still under control.

we did forego conventional bac practice for a long, long period of doubt in what they can tolerate. but a few holdouts did emerge lol. and long after practices of bac reliability were in place, thankfully seneye showed up to validate it all.

what the perceived .25 free ammonia has done to the hobby/practices/raw fear of inaction/ cannot be understated. its the bane of my reefing existence; the fear that bac can't keep up when we do minor actions compared to what nature does. it is as fun as relish on a hotdog to prove what bac can tolerate with hundreds and hundreds of reefs.

 

[CoralClasher]

I had a long break from reefing and am just jumping back in. I had a 40 breeder up for about 5 years and I did a rip clean on it every 1 or two years as you illustrated in your thread here. Most times I kept about 75% of the tank water as you and that other guy described, it's a preventative thing not a reactive measure in desperation, so why throw away good expensive water? I never did struggle much with dinos, maybe had one outbreak ever, but I had only ever used live rock and fed healthy, always felt i had good bacterial diversity... I did occasionally battle some macro algae but did the usual to attack that and get it managed.
My tank just glowed for months after, never had any casualties as a result of the 'invasive' technique. Fish and Corals into their own buckets as you described, rocks into their own. Had a separate bin to swirl the rocks around the remove any loose detritus from the removal process so as to minimize it's re-introduction into the newly scrubbed tank. That seemed to help. For the life of me I can't recall if i chucked new rinsed aragonite into the tank or rinsed my old crap lol, but either way... I was surprised that @brandon429 was going on about how it's a very unpopular thought process currently. I guess I had no information about it one way or the other, it's just something I was doing on my own in a vacuum at the time.

Yeah I’ve been cursed with Dino at least two different types. I refuse to buy a big UV light. I have learned how to keep them under control but never completely gone from microscope. I’ve only done a few five gallon water changes since my last rip clean. I’m thinking there has to be a way to perform a perfect storm that doesn’t cause a Dino bloom. But what’s the limit for new water and disturbing the sand?

 

[brandon429]

I believe there is no cause/effect to large water changes and dinos *when detritus is handled like we do*

there's a strong correlation between large water changes that stir up filthy sandbeds and dinos blooming, for sure. The sand rinse thread is 5 years running and has zero instances of dinos, and thats across tanks worldwide (every action we do is a bed rinse + 100% change, no dinos in rebound caused)= a nice set to sample. We're too thorough to allow dinos in rebound, other approaches were just changing water above a mud flat of filth, that they got more dinos never surprised the sand rinse thread/clean tanks thread.

Very few confirmed dinos jobs are in the sand rinse thread/ people accept the unproven statements that large water changes are bad/cause more dinos so they dont show up there. The few we have that I suspect were indeed dinos from the before pictures, never looked as bad after a cleaning run.

CWentz still has a perfect looking reef after a dinos rip clean, but he gets areas of regrowth far less than the prior condition, and he's having to work them out until a cure is found ( a cure for dinos, the #1 reef invasion we have for the hobby is still elusive)

Ive never seen a sand rinse do anything but help a dinos situation, and reduce future work but it may not stop it. we didnt claim sand rinsing was the cure, its just an allowed set of actions now that we're re-reminded of what bac will tolerate.

 

[CoralClasher]

I believe there is no cause/effect to large water changes and dinos *when detritus is handled like we do*

there's a strong correlation between large water changes that stir up filthy sandbeds and dinos blooming, for sure. The sand rinse thread is 5 years running and has zero instances of dinos, and thats across tanks worldwide (every action we do is a bed rinse + 100% change, no dinos in rebound caused)= a nice set to sample. We're too thorough to allow dinos in rebound, other approaches were just changing water above a mud flat of filth, that they got more dinos never surprised the sand rinse thread/clean tanks thread.

Very few confirmed dinos jobs are in the sand rinse thread/ people accept the unproven statements that large water changes are bad/cause more dinos so they dont show up there. The few we have that I suspect were indeed dinos from the before pictures, never looked as bad after a cleaning run.

CWentz still has a perfect looking reef after a dinos rip clean, but he gets areas of regrowth far less than the prior condition, and he's having to work them out until a cure is found ( a cure for dinos, the #1 reef invasion we have for the hobby is still elusive)

Ive never seen a sand rinse do anything but help a dinos situation, and reduce future work but it may not stop it. we didnt claim sand rinsing was the cure, its just an allowed set of actions now that we're re-reminded of what bac will tolerate.

Ok I’m about ready to pull the trigger on this rip clean. I was happy with the first rip clean even though it was middle of winter and couldn’t get a live sand activator. This time I’m going to rinse the sand better and clean more of the tank and plumbing better than the second rip clean. I’m going to start with a three day blackout with DE filters running. On the fourth day I’ll perform the rip clean and have some new live sand activator. What are your thoughts on holding the corals in that 55 gallon tank that I just turned green? Good idea or bad idea? Should I test a coral in the 55?

 

[brandon429]

not sure at all, that's some dense phyto and with that short holding time they should be able to eat well!! I would test, leave an lps in there and maybe one sps frag for a little longer than u plan to

I bet it works

 

[RobB'z Reef]

One thing that I didn't do well on my last ride was good deep intermittent sand bed cleaning. I'm wondering about diving into this idea and figuring out a good process to do that as a weekly/monthly maintenance task to mitigate the release of that disturbance in the first place. Granted one of my goals is regular AWC's due to travel requirements. But adding in that deep bed cleaning on a regular basis to lower the build up of detritus in the first place. While maybe not 100% effective, I believe that this may be better than no action at all between larger efforts like a rip...

 

[brandon429]

" MY WHITE SAND METHOD "

I've always talked about this in the fb groups because i get so many questions and compliments on my sand bed ....well here's my method....note: I've never tried this on a tank older than 3 years !!!! I'm well aware of the problems that can occur on older tanks...this is a "DAILY" method i use...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[RobB'z Reef]

" MY WHITE SAND METHOD "

I've always talked about this in the fb groups because i get so many questions and compliments on my sand bed ....well here's my method....note: I've never tried this on a tank older than 3 years !!!! I'm well aware of the problems that can occur on older tanks...this is a "DAILY" method i use...

www.reef2reef.com

lively debate, useful, thank you.

 

[CoralClasher]

I believe there is no cause/effect to large water changes and dinos *when detritus is handled like we do*

there's a strong correlation between large water changes that stir up filthy sandbeds and dinos blooming, for sure. The sand rinse thread is 5 years running and has zero instances of dinos, and thats across tanks worldwide (every action we do is a bed rinse + 100% change, no dinos in rebound caused)= a nice set to sample. We're too thorough to allow dinos in rebound, other approaches were just changing water above a mud flat of filth, that they got more dinos never surprised the sand rinse thread/clean tanks thread.

Very few confirmed dinos jobs are in the sand rinse thread/ people accept the unproven statements that large water changes are bad/cause more dinos so they dont show up there. The few we have that I suspect were indeed dinos from the before pictures, never looked as bad after a cleaning run.

CWentz still has a perfect looking reef after a dinos rip clean, but he gets areas of regrowth far less than the prior condition, and he's having to work them out until a cure is found ( a cure for dinos, the #1 reef invasion we have for the hobby is still elusive)

Ive never seen a sand rinse do anything but help a dinos situation, and reduce future work but it may not stop it. we didnt claim sand rinsing was the cure, its just an allowed set of actions now that we're re-reminded of what bac will tolerate.

So what are your thoughts on large water changes without disturbing anything? I’m wondering if a full rip clean is not needed for me at this time but I would like new water.

 

[brandon429]

agreed you have a very clean base. even if light detritus is in place its harmless, not compounded, well-aerated, and if you kick some up thats actually coral feed marine snow (because unlike a typical tank your clouding w be minor, brief and decent food kickup)

my vase is on year 3 past last rip clean. when I change water it really clouds up, time is approaching. Im in the heavy marine snow phase lol to the point it covers stuff soon ill do the ripper.

 

[CoralClasher]

Sounds good and a lot easier. I’m going to toss the macros again this time and get new with a live sand activator.

 

[CoralClasher]

not sure at all, that's some dense phyto and with that short holding time they should be able to eat well!! I would test, leave an lps in there and maybe one sps frag for a little longer than u plan to

I bet it works

So I put a Scolly and a Acro frag in the Phyto tank for 26 hours Scolly seems really happy and the Acro turned a little brown.

 

[brandon429]

and I think it can turn back in time to ideal colors once the standard tank params are back in place, the phyto might be a feeding fest/alter densities or clades for zooxanthellae etc for a while, if no tissue loss and polyps extend I bet its solid safe and quite good temp feed boost, to change up things.

ran in greenwater long term sounds like algae challenge eventually, but for temp runs this is the summertime phyto bloom from the ocean, densities spike well over averages for a while. your corals are seeing the dynamics they see in nature in my opinion...storms, runoff replacement, phyto blooms, manual rasping so no algae invades its all quite ideal action.

and isn't it more fun that watching a bell curve happen, which is most other reefs that store up waste. I know there are some immune to the curve, but per 100 reefs sampled they're bell curving waste but yours is flat line waste, high input suspended feed, low dissolved waste, high throughput water and all that amounts to ideal coral chemistry, long term, but at the cost of your work calories lol.

as long as the greenwater isn't low pH, or coming off a long dark period where it actually pumps co2 into the water dark phase photosynthesis the presence of greenwater should be largely unharmful. needs typical reef params as its basis...
with lights on driving greenwater the o2 will be astounding and likely over saturation max like in high output planted tanks.

 

[CoralClasher]

I’ve had the lights running 24/7 since I did the green water change. Macros are growing and the Molly is still happy.