6500k T5 Bulbs - Important Spectrums Missing in LEDs?

[Reefahholic]

I use mostly tropics in my t5 fixtures, and all my Leds run with warm /neutral whites at 100%. Still running 65k iwasakis as well lol I do believe that once corals adapt or "acclimate" they will thrive under high white light. or just about any "high" light for that matter, that provides what they need.

I run t5’s with a lot of ATI ABS, Blue+, Tropic 6500K, but I’ve always felt like MH were the best growing lights out there. Corals grow like weeds under them. If it weren’t for the heat, and electricity bill...they would be sitting over my reef now. I think T5 and Metal Halide are the best combination out there. I may run more daylight bulbs in the future, because maybe they are underrated.

I grew some Red Mangroves under all daylight bulbs and I was impressed. I always wondered if it would grow corals without much blue. These were the bulbs used:

 

[Reefahholic]

Kessil has the best color blending than any other led manufacturer I have seen... The negative to it is they have the worst shading of any led fixture and require supplemental lighting more than others. This is because they have such a tight led cluster.
Do not get me wrong I love Kessil and with supplemental they have the next best look after metal halide, they just require something to go with it.

I think the Orphek has the best color blending and it's probably sitting at the top 3 for LED growth.

 

[Reefahholic]

It is called Emerson Effect.

This is the leading candidate for an explanation why 500-1000+ PPFD from a MH/T5, of 2000+ PAR from the sun will allow corals to thrive, but you better stop at 350-400 PAR from a LED or else your corals can burn. Orphek has put their money that 850nm is the way to go and had added them to their Atlantik V4.

There are theories that it helps with "too much" and it could also help to allow electrons to just "move out" to the next photosystem instead of being "trapped" in the previous, so it could be necessary for even a normal amount of light. Nobody really seems to know. In any case, there are enough burnt corals in hobbyist tanks at PPFD levels that are significantly lower than other light methods with IR that do not burn corals.

IR is tough for a LED manufacturer... once they are added back in, then LEDs have some of the same heat issues that MH can if you are not careful. This takes away from some of the value-add that the manufacturers promise.

I gotta say...I'm impressed with the Orphek LED's. If I were to be a few LED fixtures....I'd be picking up these. I just can't seem to get away from t5's. I love the look and they grow coral easily. If I had the money and could afford to buy a chiller and pay the electric bills for Metal Halides....They would be going over my tank when I get home. IMO...nothing really outgrows Metal Halides. Unless it's MH/T5 combo.

 

[Reefahholic]

I am currently a T5 only user, but I saw those new Kessil A360X LED lights at MACNA over the weekend. Soooo tempting.

I just picked up an LED fixture. bah hahha.

 

[Reefahholic]

Point always has been you can add any spectrum to LED's you want.

It's manuf and understanding that is lacking.. not LED's..

Seems a hard point for some to understand..

You can argue the MEANING or DEGREES of success all you want but the fact is things have been grown and flourish w/out them..YMMV

oreo5457....jda is running MH's and I've seen his reef.

May I see yours under LED's.?

 

[Lasse]

Is it enough to see mine?



Sincerely Lasse

 

[oreo54]

oreo5457....jda is running MH's and I've seen his reef.

May I see yours under LED's.?

No you may not..

 

[oreo54]

Is it enough to see mine?



Sincerely Lasse

Thank you..
I'm sure there are 100's more..

 

[Dana Riddle]

IMO - the far red active in the Emerson effect is between 700-760 nm with a peak around 730 nm. This is at least the wavelength actual for green plants (730 nm). Why Orphek have chose 850 nm - I have no idea - however you have to be very careful with the intensity when using Atlantic 4.

@CO2doser The way I have understand it it will increase the yield of PS2 - which would increase the O produced. At first sight - the damage would not be due to radical O production - but I do not really know. My hope was that @Dana Riddle should jump in and explain - but he just hit the like button

Sincerely Lasse

Got my Saturday chores done - maybe cutting grass for the last time until Spring! Yay!
Here's the scoop on LEDs generating radiation peaking at 730nm. But first, some background.
In a quirk of nomenclature, Photosystem II transfers collected photons (now in the form of electrons) to Photosystem I (so named because it was discovered first.) Chlorophylls and Accessory (or Antennae) Pigments collect light and channel it to Reactions Centers. The Reaction Centers in Photosystem II absorb light at 680nm (hence these are called Pigment 680 or P-680.) The Reaction Centers in Photosystem I absorb light at 700nm (Pigment 700, or P-700.) There must be a balance of electron flow between Photosystem II and Photosystem I or damage can occur (Photosystem II acts as the electron donor, and Photosystem I the acceptor. If Photosystem I cannot accept electrons from Photosystem II, a 'traffic jam of electrons occurs.) Photosystem I can absorb light at 730nm and this helps in preventing the 'traffic jam.' Now, what happens when no far red light is available (such as we would see at depth?) In these cases, something called a 'State Transition' or 'Spill Over' of energy from PSII to PSI possibly occurs, thus stimulating PSI and allowing it to accept the electrons from PSII. Is this possible in all zooxanthellae species/clades/types? Here we venture into unknown territory (at least it is not known by myself.) Until detailed laboratory experiments are conducted with the several hundred types of zooxanthellae and we understand how common - or not - Spillover is, it is likely that exposure to radiation at 730nm will do no harm and quite possibly beneficial.

 

[jda]

Oreo does not reef. He searches the internet and posts links... sometimes lives vicariously off of other people's work like he just did to Lasse trying to get by while fully understanding that nobody questions Lasse's judgements or opinions, just his.

 

[Reefahholic]

No you may not..

 

[Reefahholic]

Thank you..
I'm sure there are 100's more..

Clams will grow under anything Lasse

 

[Reefahholic]

Is it enough to see mine?



Sincerely Lasse

See post above. lol

 

[Reefahholic]

Oreo does not reef. He searches the internet and posts links... sometimes lives vicariously off of other people's work like he just did to Lasse trying to get by while fully understanding that nobody questions Lasse's judgements or opinions, just his.

You gotta watch the ones that refuse to post a pic of their tank, but blowing up the forums.

 

[Reefahholic]

There's not doubt LED's will grow coral. I just personally think that currently (as in 2019) there's a few better options out there such as T5 and Halide. I believe the reason why LFS like WWC or Top shelf - have switched over is due to long-term running costs and simplicity. People don't wanna change bulbs, buy a chiller, or deal with heat. They don't like high electric bills which is completely understandable. Plus...in the back of their minds they're thinking...."Well Sanjay did it."

Maybe this can be a BRS investigates......

MH/T5 combo Vs Radion/ Orphek


Not don't get me wrong...there's drawbacks like this with MH/T5 combo. This can be a lot of work.

 

[Mortie31]

There's not doubt LED's will grow coral. I just personally think that currently (as in 2019) there's a few better options out there such as T5 and Halide. I believe the reason why LFS like WWC or Top shelf - have switched over is due to long-term running costs and simplicity. People don't wanna change bulbs, buy a chiller, or deal with heat. They don't like high electric bills which is completely understandable. Plus...in the back of their minds they're thinking...."Well Sanjay did it."

Maybe this can be a BRS investigates......

MH/T5 combo Vs Radion/ Orphek


Not don't get me wrong...there's drawbacks like this with MH/T5 combo. This can be a lot of work.

Maybe BRS should investigate the selling of frags to offset the electric costs of Mh lol

 

[Lasse]

​

99 more to go....... 2.5 m deep - only LED

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Clams will grow under anything Lasse

Maybe - but the largest of them have been with me for 2.5 years, the next largest - 2 years, the third largest 2.5 years, the forth largest 1.5 years and the small blue one - for 1/2 a year. Original size of all - a little bit smaller than the blue small one.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Got my Saturday chores done - maybe cutting grass for the last time until Spring! Yay!
Here's the scoop on LEDs generating radiation peaking at 730nm. But first, some background.
In a quirk of nomenclature, Photosystem II transfers collected photons (now in the form of electrons) to Photosystem I (so named because it was discovered first.) Chlorophylls and Accessory (or Antennae) Pigments collect light and channel it to Reactions Centers. The Reaction Centers in Photosystem II absorb light at 680nm (hence these are called Pigment 680 or P-680.) The Reaction Centers in Photosystem I absorb light at 700nm (Pigment 700, or P-700.) There must be a balance of electron flow between Photosystem II and Photosystem I or damage can occur (Photosystem II acts as the electron donor, and Photosystem I the acceptor. If Photosystem I cannot accept electrons from Photosystem II, a 'traffic jam of electrons occurs.) Photosystem I can absorb light at 730nm and this helps in preventing the 'traffic jam.' Now, what happens when no far red light is available (such as we would see at depth?) In these cases, something called a 'State Transition' or 'Spill Over' of energy from PSII to PSI possibly occurs, thus stimulating PSI and allowing it to accept the electrons from PSII. Is this possible in all zooxanthellae species/clades/types? Here we venture into unknown territory (at least it is not known by myself.) Until detailed laboratory experiments are conducted with the several hundred types of zooxanthellae and we understand how common - or not - Spillover is, it is likely that exposure to radiation at 730nm will do no harm and quite possibly beneficial.

Thank´s for the clarifying

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Bpb]

I fully intend on attempting a comparison of 10k mh in a quality reflector against a quality led fixture in the next year in an adequately large and controlled system with regards to acropora. I will not for one minute consider myself an authority or a final say, just hope to add anecdotal data to the pool. This will be a long running “experiment” similar to how Adam at BC does it. With identical samples of pieces in a closed system over a long time period.