6500k T5 Bulbs - Important Spectrums Missing in LEDs?

[DSC reef]

Maybe you should go full LED and prove that you can keep your system as is. Just maybe.

Were using all led on our new system and just like MANY others, tank will do just fine. Lol

 

[fermentedhiker]

I'm curious if it would be possible and if so beneficial in building an LED that utilized a metal halide style reflector. This would obviously require a lot more leds as many would have to be mounted pointing toward the reflector. This would reduce/eliminate the shading issue and possibly aid in blending as well?

 

[ReefInskeep]

I'm curious if it would be possible and if so beneficial in building an LED that utilized a metal halide style reflector. This would obviously require a lot more leds as many would have to be mounted pointing toward the reflector. This would reduce/eliminate the shading issue and possibly aid in blending as well?

I assume it’s possible, but I think it wouldn’t be as efficient as other options. Simply using a diffuser on a large cluster of LEDs should produce those results.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I'm curious if it would be possible and if so beneficial in building an LED that utilized a metal halide style reflector. This would obviously require a lot more leds as many would have to be mounted pointing toward the reflector. This would reduce/eliminate the shading issue and possibly aid in blending as well?

I’ve thought of this as well. Imagine something like a Kessil, but light comes out both the top and bottom, and a MH reflector is mounted above it.

 

[fermentedhiker]

I’ve thought of this as well. Imagine something like a Kessil, but light comes out both the top and bottom, and a MH reflector is mounted above it.

Yeah, it would have to less focused than a kessil to take full advantage of the reflector but that was my general idea.

 

[oreo54]

T5s and halides to promote their products in an unfair comparison.

curious.. where has this been done specifically?

actually this seems more prone to "that side" like using 1600W plus 1000W MH's vs what, 3 90W Kessils??? LOL...

 

[jda]

Form factor of using larger reflectors will detract from a lot of LED sales, IMO. I could be wrong. Good reflectors are 90-95% efficient, so that is not really an excuse. ...just if most people are going to buy a Cozumel Sun, or LumenMax, then they might as well just put a Halide in there since they are looking at a hood, custom build, etc. anyway.

I guess that what I am getting at is that most people think that these type of fixtures are ugly.

How many of you went LED because they looked cool or had a nice form factor? That is one of the main detractions from larger panels like the Atlantik or Photon... they are too big. Design and look is huge for most companies since they sell the most product to leading edge buyers and noobies who are not even aware of any of the questions on this thread yet... so "does it look cool" is one of the most important questions.

 

[Lasse]

In Sweden I think that it is very limited number of reefers using Halides today, there is little more using T5 and some use T5 - LED hybrid. But most use LED. And it works.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[oreo54]

If design and look was so important MH would have never been used..

speaking of but ugly..lighting..

The lighting consists of five 400-watt metal halide bulbs, three Ushio 10,000K and two Radium 20,000K bulbs driven by PFO brand HQI type ballasts. For the dawn/dusk effect there are eight 95 watt and two 160 watt URI VHO actinic bulbs driven by IceCap and URI electronic ballasts. So I have 1080 watts of actinics and 2000 watts of halides for 3080 total watts.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/totm/index.php

That is one of the main detractions from larger panels like the Atlantik or Photon... they are too big.

funny, in comparison..

 

[A. grandis]

Were using all led on our new system and just like MANY others, tank will do just fine. Lol

Just fine isn't enough for me. Sorry.

 

[DSC reef]

Just fine isn't enough for me. Sorry.

Lol. Do you run halides? Have you tried any led lights?

 

[TexasTodd]

Lasse, thanks for the info. That makes sense (first post) and is that also why we think PAR meters are "off" with LED? Seems so.
Everyone else should chill. This is a hobby and we should all be here to learn / better our practices.
You CAN have an amazing tank with only LED. Look at Vivid Aquariums, Sanjay, etc. Is it better at growing corals than MH and MH combo? My OPINION is no.
The interesting thing on the 6500k thing is they were well known at producing pretty lame colors in corals....but, we're now seeing that they possibly produce great colors in corals when hit with high 6500k WHEN the blue LED's highlight them later without 6500 on. Which seems to play into the pigment protection and colors that shows up under the LED's. Seems more so than what VHO actinics would show for some reason.

Without trying things that could have bumps we don't see improvements. Will LED die out? Possibly, but I bet that things get dialed in better to work more easily. People are posting here that this is forcing MH manufacturers to improve so that's already another benefit.

 

[A. grandis]

curious.. where has this been done specifically?

actually this seems more prone to "that side" like using 1600W plus 1000W MH's vs what, 3 90W Kessils??? LOL...

You guys like to talk about lumens, right?
If you get the same amount of lumens per watt from LEDs and halides you will NOT be able to get the same usable light from those LEDs as you get from halides. That is a fact. Even if you have more lumens from an LED fixtures you won't be able to get the rest of the usable spectrum halides offer. Fact. You must know that. Different sources with different natures and different production of usable spectrum. Not visible, which is lumens about, but usable spectrum.

Talking about the PDF. Are we going to ignore the facts?
Thank God they published the comparison with the pictures so we know what's going on.

https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

T5s aren't designed to be placed that high!!!!!

Also the halides are way too high for any application!!!

The only cute thing about the whole PDF is that dog!!!!

LOL. Very funny, don't you think?! So funny...
That dog knows the secrets too! So cute. Haha. I love dogs.

Sorry, lets go back to the subject... You guys make me excited.

And many people swallow that nice clean Apple looking PDF as good food. Guess what: pure sugar with a nice colorful wrap.
Comments on Tullio's video? I'm still waiting...
By the way... I get better graphics for you further down, my friend...

Halides and T5s have way more to offer than any LEDs because of it's nature. It can't be changed. Remember what Tullio said... science can't be changed!!!
Trying to ignore that is the same as trying to promote something at any cost.
They are different and halides and T5s offer way more, simply.
No sense to try use the excuse of saving electricity/chiller when you guys have expensive corals to be maintained! Think!
If you guys see the electricity costs as part of the package you will have better tanks in the long run.

Again... it's everyone's choice. I do respect all the LED users. As I've said before, I have many friends.
It's a matter of what you want to keep and how. Everyone is different.
Now... to try to prove in a clean nice PDF that their LEDs are actually BETTER than halides and T5s the way they did to sell more isn't cool.
That's all!!! The application is what gives you the results. Those LEDs at that distance can provide what halides and T5s can't because of the lenses and the nature of LEDs. BUT... they can't provide what halides and T5s would be able to provide when using those fixtures at the proper distance recommended by manufacturers. Period.

Go look at WWC's tank now. I feel sorry for them. After 3 years? Are you kidding me?
I've told them when they first moved away from their halides and T5s that I wanted to see the results in the long run. I actually called them on the phone back then...

Now to my graphics:

Today:


Old times:







Tullio's video will tell you a lot.
He is the guy who introduced LEDs to the aquariums world and he still brings the facts so we know better.
Things are much more simple than a bunch of graphics and PAR measurements.
That's all I want people to understand before they spend those thousands of dollars with their LED fixtures. Oh, but they do just fine and grow corals. I know that. I know...

 

[A. grandis]

Lol. Do you run halides? Have you tried any led lights?

LOL. You know I did. Please don't play games.

 

[DSC reef]

You guys like to talk about lumens, right?
If you get the same amount of lumens per watt from LEDs and halides you will NOT be able to get the same usable light from those LEDs as you get from halides. That is a fact. Even if you have more lumens from an LED fixtures you won't be able to get the rest of the usable spectrum halides offer. Fact. You must know that. Different sources with different natures and different production of usable spectrum. Not visible, which is lumens about, but usable spectrum.

Talking about the PDF. Are we going to ignore the facts?
Thank God they published the comparison with the pictures so we know what's going on.

https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

T5s aren't designed to be placed that high!!!!!

Also the halides are way too high for any application!!!

The only cute thing about the whole PDF is that dog!!!!

LOL. Very funny, don't you think?! So funny...
That dog knows the secrets too! So cute. Haha. I love dogs.

Sorry, lets go back to the subject... You guys make me excited.

And many people swallow that nice clean Apple looking PDF as good food. Guess what: pure sugar with a nice colorful wrap.
Comments on Tullio's video? I'm still waiting...
By the way... I get better graphics for you further down, my friend...

Halides and T5s have way more to offer than any LEDs because of it's nature. It can't be changed. Remember what Tullio said... science can't be changed!!!
Trying to ignore that is the same as trying to promote something at any cost.
They are different and halides and T5s offer way more, simply.
No sense to try use the excuse of saving electricity/chiller when you guys have expensive corals to be maintained! Think!
If you guys see the electricity costs as part of the package you will have better tanks in the long run.

Again... it's everyone's choice. I do respect all the LED users. As I've said before, I have many friends.
It's a matter of what you want to keep and how. Everyone is different.
Now... to try to prove in a clean nice PDF that their LEDs are actually BETTER than halides and T5s the way they did to sell more isn't cool.
That's all!!! The application is what gives you the results. Those LEDs at that distance can provide what halides and T5s can't because of the lenses and the nature of LEDs. BUT... they can't provide what halides and T5s would be able to provide when using those fixtures at the proper distance recommended by manufacturers. Period.

Go look at WWC's tank now. I feel sorry for them. After 3 years? Are you kidding me?
I've told them when they first moved away from their halides and T5s that I wanted to see the results in the long run. I actually called them on the phone back then...

Now to my graphics:

Today:


Old times:







Tullio's video will tell you a lot.
He is the guy who introduced LEDs to the aquariums world and he still brings the facts so we know better.
Things are much more simple than a bunch of graphics and PAR measurements.
That's all I want people to understand before they spend those thousands of dollars with their LED fixtures. Oh, but they do just fine and grow corals. I know that. I know...

Wow man. World wide would not feel sorry for you, lol. I'd suggest actually paying a visit and seeing what a real tank looks like. Just more rhetoric by grandis, I'm out...

 

[A. grandis]

Wow man. World wide would not feel sorry for you, lol. I'd suggest actually paying a visit and seeing what a real tank looks like. I'm out...

Please don't go. Don't ignore the facts. Read!!!! Go watch Tullio's video!!
Make sure you remove those halides and get those Radions over your tank!
Then you came after my posts, ok?

 

[Velcro]

So glad I blocked that grandis joker months ago.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Please don't go. Don't ignore the facts. Read!!!! Go watch Tullio's video!!
Make sure you remove those halides and get those Radions over your tank!
Then you came after my posts, ok?

Careful

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

I guess I’m part of the mass of new-ish guys that have taken to the green/yellow is bad mantra by rote.

Is there a way to incorporate these hues without destroying the aesthetics that the blues provide? I find my 10,000k bulbs to be pretty objectionable - I have a pile of 6500k that I just tossed in the closet when I got my fixture (yes - a t5 fixture). I couldn’t imagine actually using them...

 

[Mattrg02]

So....Should I turn up my CW leds or...