Acro killer sadness... any tips?

[Salty-Sailor]

Ive been trying so hard to get my frag tank to merely (keep alive) not even asking to grow Acropora and nothing has lasted more then 10days except for 1 frag of pineapple juice acropora which "seems" to be growing, good color and polyp extension.

ive seem to have a problem with over feeding and enjoying spot feeding so my filtration is very overkill. all my lps and softies have thrived! growing, beautiful and eat like pigs.

my nutrients are non existent but ive been feeding enough and quality lighting to make up for the difference. im assuming not enough for acros though. My alk had seemed to have been 'High"(9.5-10DKH) based on peoples opinion since i had virtually a Ultra low nutrient system. aka i needed to bring my alk down but no one was clear on how low so i set a number of 7DKH to aim for.

at 7dkh im still having the same issue of bleaching and RTN but the added bonus at 7dkh is now most all of my corals are un happy with alk levels.

i have a Huge sump with marine pure blocks, great fuge with mud, biopellet reactor with very little amount of pallets and correctly sized skimmer.

i have continued to feed heavy to tank as well as turned off the skimmer about two weeks ago. measured daily with Hanna checker, API and selifert to make sure i was getting correct readings and still no nutrients measurable. next step was changing my fuge light from reverse light schedule to running 9 hours in the night & keeping chaeto very trimmed. still no change.

not wanting to rid my tank even more i haven't done a water change in a few weeks but dont want my trace elements to go too low so ive been dosing 0.2ml per day of trace elements via red sea.

2 days ago i took my small amount of bio pellets offline and today still no change and getting roughly 1 frag of acropora RTN per day.

my next step is to send test to be perfessionally tested but that takes time as well.

anyone see something im doing wrong or anything?

1.025 sal
7dkh
425Cal
1300 mag
nitrates 0
phosphates ultra low reading 0 or barely anything 0.02


acros are getting aprox 140-220 Par via 2 xr15 gen 4 pros and 4 bulb t5 (only running 6 hours a day)

 

[drawman]

Nitrates and phosphates have bottomed out on you. I would look into dosing both as a first resort. Your marinepure and biopellets have been stripping the water of nutrients IMO. What do you test PO4 with? Acros tend to hold a grudge so miracles rarely happen overnight.

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

Acros really like consistency too. If you're going to make a change, try to stay with it and execute it slowly and methodically. It sucks that your having so much trouble with it though, good luck moving forward with stuff!

 

[Salty-Sailor]

i test po4 with hanna checker and red sea pro test kit.

i feed heavy on LRS frozen food. Reef roids, reef chili, and i dose 6ml per day of reef energy. just started dosing a small amount of Macrodiet macrovore by brightwell as well.

what else could i dose?

 

[Salty-Sailor]

Acros really like consistency too. If you're going to make a change, try to stay with it and execute it slowly and methodically. It sucks that your having so much trouble with it though, good luck moving forward with stuff!

I appreciate it. i feel as though ive done a great job on consistency for most levels. light, randomized flow, feeding regiment, dosing major and minor elements. 0TDS RODI auto top off. great evaporation. very little temperature change.

very very frustrated and it seems to me that everyone else i know and see has no issues with growing or having Acropora and i have all the right equipment but just cant get things right for them :/

 

[Potatohead]

How old is this tank?

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

very very frustrated and it seems to me that everyone else i know and see has no issues with growing or having Acropora and i have all the right equipment but just cant get things right for them :/

That's how I am with Acans/Micromussa, never really been able to grow them in any capacity

 

[Salty-Sailor]

How old is this tank?

6months old but all media, equipment, rock and water was transferred from reef tank that was doing well for 8 months but stand issues and tank cracked so i transferred everything to this larger water volume frag tank.

 

[Salty-Sailor]

That's how I am with Acans/Micromussa, never really been able to grow them in any capacity

i have the opposite problem for sure. acans produce amazing colors and growth in this tank.

the one major thing that brought me into this hobby was seeing these crazy vibrant sticks and ive worked my way up to them but still cant have them

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

6months old but all media, equipment, rock and water was transferred from reef tank that was doing well for 8 months but stand issues and tank cracked so i transferred everything to this larger water volume frag tank.

6-8 months may still be too premature for sticks, I waited until my tank was 1.5 years old and had consistent test results for weeks before adding a couple of birdsnests. I waited another month to see how they would do and after seeing them grow like weeds, I switched them out with a single, hardy variety of acro. That acro was doing well for another month so I added a few more at that point and saw that I needed to dose alk and calcium in between bi-weekly water changes or just do weekly water changes. It's a trial and error sort of thing but having a mature and stable tank helps out a whole lot.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Maybe send in your water sample for ICP testing. There is a reason for this, it just needs to be figured out. I don't think it's related to RTN, but for lack of growth is that your PAR is low for SPS. The range for optimal growth is 250-350 and your photo period is also probably too short for SPS as well. But again, that is more related to pushing optimal growth I don't thin that would cause them to die like they are.
People poo poo on water changes these days, but back in the day we then was a tough issue that was hard to figure out we did a few large water changes and ran some carbon and sometimes that would resolve the issue. You might try it.

 

[Eddie7144]

I am by no means an expert. I learned by trial and error ( meaning I killed more corals than I care to admit ) , but stability is a major factor, you're nitrates and phosphates are way to low , alittle dirt never hurt anything and i really think a dkh of 7 is low it should be at 8 at the lowest. I keep mine at 10 to 11 and do weekly wc

 

[drawman]

i test po4 with hanna checker and red sea pro test kit.

i feed heavy on LRS frozen food. Reef roids, reef chili, and i dose 6ml per day of reef energy. just started dosing a small amount of Macrodiet macrovore by brightwell as well.

what else could i dose?

Good I like the hanna ULR checker but there is a margin of error with both of their testers...so near zero may essentially be zero PO4. I think all of your feeding is helpful but I would personally dose NO3 in the form of potassium or sodium nitrate and used bottled PO4 (brightwell and I believe seachem make supplements). If you can get your nutrients detectable and keep them from bottoming out I think that will go a long way. I think the denitrifying bacteria have been driving your system too hard.

Low alkalinity is better for low nutrient tanks but when you have no nutrients things go bad for acros.

 

[pa1ntbru5h]

I think the nutrients are your issue.
Yes, it is indeed possible to have thriving ULNS systems. But if you're not dosing all the amino acids constantly, I would suggest you start slowly raising your nitrate and phosphate and at least keep the tank "low nutrient" rather than pegging it at zero.

I went through this same exact thing with my tank, except the acros weren't dying, they just weren't growing and the colors weren't great. Ever since I raised my nutrients I've been seeing way better color and growth from all my corals.
I'm only at 2 ppm nitrates so you don't need to do a whole lot, you just don't want it pegged at zero. Follow the Redfield Ratio to keep your Nitrate and Phosphates in balance.

We tend to over-do our filtration and nutrient export. When I started my tank I was trying everything to keep my water clean. I had an overpowered skimmer, carbon and gfo, chaeto reactor, and microbubbling.

I've since learned that if your water is too clean, there is no food for the corals.
Fish poop is your best friend.
Now, I just run my skimmer and a tiny tiny bit of carbon and gfo.

EDIT:

Also, for alkalinity. Anything between 7-11 dkh is fine as long as you keep it stable.

But it's not always about your water parameters.. Make sure you have enough flow in your tank! Flow is a pretty big factor and SPS like a pretty good amount of flow. And yes lack of flow can cause SPS to die.

 

[PatW]

You might try some SPS corals that are not acrophora. They have similar requirements but are not as picky. Once you get them dialed in try some easy acrophora. You can try dosing nitrates to keep them low but measurable.

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

Now, I just run my skimmer and a tiny tiny bit of carbon and gfo.

I too run only my crappy IM ghost skimmer, some chemipure blue nano and some phosphate removing pads (GFO is too strong for nanos IMO). I used to run chaeto, a carbon reactor, phosphate pads, bio-pellets and dosed some stuff. I think it was just too complicated and had too many failure points. My euphyllias and blastomussa hated it as well as my montipora plates so I just decided to use the KISS method (keep it simple sir/stupid/stud/superman...) and simplify things and use the corals as indicators. If the corals look good, I just keep doing what I'm doing and since I started only running a little carbon, phosphate pads, and my skimmer, my corals have exploded in growth and I definitely don't pull out as much of my hair as I used to.

 

[Salty-Sailor]

Maybe send in your water sample for ICP testing. There is a reason for this, it just needs to be figured out. I don't think it's related to RTN, but for lack of growth is that your PAR is low for SPS. The range for optimal growth is 250-350 and your photo period is also probably too short for SPS as well. But again, that is more related to pushing optimal growth I don't thin that would cause them to die like they are.
People poo poo on water changes these days, but back in the day we then was a tough issue that was hard to figure out we did a few large water changes and ran some carbon and sometimes that would resolve the issue. You might try it.

The t5 only runs during peak of radions for 6hours but the radions run for 9 and a half hours.

my next step would be to send in a ICP test just to see if a bad minor element is present i guess.

 

[Salty-Sailor]

I am by no means an expert. I learned by trial and error ( meaning I killed more corals than I care to admit ) , but stability is a major factor, you're nitrates and phosphates are way to low , alittle dirt never hurt anything and i really think a dkh of 7 is low it should be at 8 at the lowest. I keep mine at 10 to 11 and do weekly wc

mine was at 10.5 for the longest time but when i first added acros they RTN within days and i assumed it was alk burn with higher alk and lower nutrients so i started lowering my alk to 7 over the past month and seemed to make the acros last longer but in the end still RTN or bleach off.

 

[Salty-Sailor]

Good I like the hanna ULR checker but there is a margin of error with both of their testers...so near zero may essentially be zero PO4. I think all of your feeding is helpful but I would personally dose NO3 in the form of potassium or sodium nitrate and used bottled PO4 (brightwell and I believe seachem make supplements). If you can get your nutrients detectable and keep them from bottoming out I think that will go a long way. I think the denitrifying bacteria have been driving your system too hard.

Low alkalinity is better for low nutrient tanks but when you have no nutrients things go bad for acros.

i will research those now and maybe start off with a little and see where i get.

ive heard stomp remover as well can bring nutrients up but that sounds very drastic.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

The t5 only runs during peak of radions for 6hours but the radions run for 9 and a half hours.

my next step would be to send in a ICP test just to see if a bad minor element is present i guess.

If it really was an issue with nutrients, your LPS and softies would be having issues, which they aren't, right? And you said you feed a ton so I don't understand why others keep saying its nutrients. Anyway, the test results will be interesting. I still suggest carbon in a reactor and water changes in the meantime.