Btw, this is what a good seam looks like. Still in the raw unpolished state
Acrylic Fabrication Q & A
- Thread starter Turbo's Aquatics
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suresh2989
Community Member
Well I hadn’t welded the top or base to it just yet I have just placed it against it to show it in pictures as one last measure does getting a sheet that is larger by about 1” in all directions work ?Btw, this is what a good seam looks like. Still in the raw unpolished state
It's not so much the oversize, yes that is necessary. Your disappointments will begin at the joints. where the two walls meet. Then you will have many many many small bubbles form along the long seams. How do you plan to cut out the access holes in the top panel?
Tenecor is giving you good advice. Bar clamps are not the solution to proper fabrication. Too much to detail here. But by clamping items to tight you actually express the materials that give you a strong bond. Proper edge preparation negates the necessity to add clamps and force out the bubbles. We use the pin methods described here along with a table set up with a closed cell foam used for a seal between pickup truck beds and canopies. Sold through most hardware stores. We use this to support the perimeter of the items to be acrylic welded or bonded. This supplies even pressure to the seam without adding large weights or clamps. Some companies use a special felt that prevents mark off if solvent is spilled on the sheet or table.
Correct assemble in our experience is to start with the back. Bond the right and left ends with a jig to keep the ends at 90 degrees to the back. Next flip that assemble onto the front panel with a center brace that is the same dimensions as the ends to prevent the ends from splaying out. Using the 90 degree jigs to prevent movement of the ends as the are bonded to the front. Next, bond the now complete perimeter of the tank with the center spacer in place to the top with the routed out access opening already cut out. Finally, flip the assembly over and bond it to the bottom. This is how we assure a square assembly and eliminate bubbles.
If you measure a cut sheet of acrylic you will discover it is not dimensional stable as the thickness varies due to the cell casting method necessary to make acrylic at the correct density for aquarium manufacturing. This can affect the proper bond for the top as well as the bottom of the aquarium.
Way back in the dark ages I sold Tenecor tanks to my customers and installed central filtration systems for them. The last store I did that for was called Soutas Saltwater in Portland at the time.
It was after that sale we decided to make our own tanks and sell them in the Northwest. Tenecor taught me a lot and provided a good basis of understanding about the industry. Glad to see they are still around and innovative.
Lowell Lemon,
President,
Tricon Technology Inc.
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suresh2989
Community Member
My question is I am at the penultimate stage now and is it worth going out there and getting a sheet just for the base by about 1 inch bigger which would most certainly push the costs to full size sheet(4’ x 8’ ) and try my luck because the seem quality itself so far has been very good like only a handful of bubbles in the 4 sides that I welded.
now if I weld this parallelogram to a bigger base sheet would I be building a potentially dangerous tank that might break any day or is it just that it would have too many not so aesthetically good bubbles . Because at this point I don’t mind the bubbles.
I remember you Lowell. All the best.
The danger comes from bad seam bonds. Odd shapes are not in themselves dangerous. You may end up with a structurally sound but not very attractive build. Kind of like a rescue dog. Dubious pedigree but often the best. Go for it. Guys like you make this hobby so refreshing and pure. I will help you as much as I can
suresh2989
Community Member
Thank you I am doing this to surprise my wife who is in a different country right now that’s why you see me building it in my apartment living room, so I want to go for the bigger panel for the base and use the older panel with access holes for the top.
if atleast it is structurally sound I will try and take advantage of some stand design to hide the seams.
thanks again for answering my questions. I will post an update here soon.
OP
OP
Well I somehow stopped getting notifications on this thread, my bad. I just skimmed the last few pages and I see a lot of things going on that I would have commented on but a few other beat me to it. Just off the top of my head from a literal 1 minute skim:
Clamps: never. ever. I don't care what Joey DIY does clamps are wrong wrong wrongditty wrong.
Time after solvent to even thinking about touching the assembled joint: 4 hours, preferably 8
Time after solvent before routing: 22 hours (I didn't come up with that btw) but definitely not an hour.
Soak time - you really should only need about 20 seconds or so. minutes? nope. That being said, size of pins and time of soak is largely related to the brand of material you are using. I have had certain material require a full 60 seconds and larger pins to get enough solvent bite to make for a clean seam. Side note: you also let that joint sit 2-3 times as long before even thinking about touching it.
Clamps: never. ever. I don't care what Joey DIY does clamps are wrong wrong wrongditty wrong.
Time after solvent to even thinking about touching the assembled joint: 4 hours, preferably 8
Time after solvent before routing: 22 hours (I didn't come up with that btw) but definitely not an hour.
Soak time - you really should only need about 20 seconds or so. minutes? nope. That being said, size of pins and time of soak is largely related to the brand of material you are using. I have had certain material require a full 60 seconds and larger pins to get enough solvent bite to make for a clean seam. Side note: you also let that joint sit 2-3 times as long before even thinking about touching it.
Cabinetman
Well-Known Member
Well I’ve built probably 40 big tanks and my current 4 year old 10’ 560 gallon was built using clamps and soak times of 2-3 mins and all my tanks are still holding and Still have near perfect seams so I have to disagree. I couldn’t imagine trying to build a tank without clamping. I’ve seen lots of tanks built without them and the seams were horrible. I will tell you my seams are always flawless because I follow a strict protocol when building and nothing is left to chance like not clamping…
OP
OP
Bigger tanks are an advanced build IMO, this thread is mainly for DIYers. That being said, the reason I've been told generally not to use clamps is because compressing the joint leads to squeezing out the dissolved material. Adding weight is better because it naturally distributes the pressure more evenly. Paying attention to any warp in the panel when dry-fitting the joint (prior to pinning) allow you to flush up the joint with shims. Using a soft underbase (be that foam covered boards or some other technique) allows you to do that easily.
I can't tell you how many times I've had the discussion about soak times. The answer I always get is actually that a longer soak time is worse, that you only need as much soak time as is necessary to perform a certain amount of dissolving of the material in the joint, and any excess can cause problems. For PMACS or plex-G, this is roughly 20-30 seconds.
Just ask @acrylics how long of a soak time he uses for making a tank with 2" material
I can't tell you how many times I've had the discussion about soak times. The answer I always get is actually that a longer soak time is worse, that you only need as much soak time as is necessary to perform a certain amount of dissolving of the material in the joint, and any excess can cause problems. For PMACS or plex-G, this is roughly 20-30 seconds.
Just ask @acrylics how long of a soak time he uses for making a tank with 2" material
Cabinetman
Well-Known Member
I actually bought a tenacor tank a few years ago off kijiji. It was 96x24x30” tall. It was all made off 1/2” acrylic. The front seams were so full of micro fractures because the front panel had bowed out so bad that the owners pretty much gave it to me. The front panel bowed out probably close to an inch! That’s why I use 3/4 on all my tanks 24” tall to avoid this and 1” on 30” tall. Is using 1/2” thick on 30” tall tanks still your practice? I know my 10’ long 30” tall x 38” deep tank at the 4 year mark has virtually no deflection whatsoever. I can look down it and it’s as straight as an arrow. The tank looks the same as the day I built it.
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OP
OP
It never was??? (EDIT; sorry I thought you were quoting me, I see now it was Tenecor you had quoted)
Whenever I'm asked about this question, I copy/paste this:
Going by this, I would have said 1"
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Also, how do you know it was a Tenecor? You should see how times people write us about their cracked Tenecor "glass" tanks.
Cabinetman
Well-Known Member
I’ve only ever used acrylite and marga cipta. The acrylite is definitely softer and 2 mins was my soak time. Marga cipta is a lot harder. I would let the weld 4 soak 3 mins min. That was the only way I got good melt. Anyway. You wanna see a tank I built. Look at joeys 375. I built it..
Cabinetman
Well-Known Member
Because it had a tenacor sticker on it
Let's see some pics of your builds
Cabinetman
Well-Known Member
Here’s a few tanks I’ve made.
suresh2989
Community Member
Ok this coming from a totally Novice/first time DIYer,
I have made two tanks one is cube 23 X 23 and another is 60 X 24 X 20.
Thinner pins, 50 second soak, clamps, shims, Weldon 4 :
The Smaller cube I followed everything from this thread except the foam, i put million shims on the work MDF too but i used thinner acupuncture needles and 50 seconds soak time, the seam quality was not the greatest especially the bubbles, there were quite a few near the edge of seams still not the end of world several hobbyist i showed pictures assured me it is good work for the first time and it looks structurally sound, i have posted pictures of the tank here previously, I am proud of this work especially considering I am not going to sell it to anyone.
Thicker pins, 2 minutes 30 seconds soak, clamps , shims, Weldon 4:
The bigger tank, I followed similar but I used thicker sewing needles and soaked it for 2 to 3 minutes, the difference was very clear almost no bubbles within the seams, I still am curing my tank's last side, with some personal help from @Cabinetman who PMed me here after I posted my 4 sided fiasco and guided me to complete my 5th(Euro brace top) and 6th(Base) welding, I can safely say his help made me cross the finish line after all the doom and gloom I felt after I posted my 4th side parallelogram here, and happy to report I didn't have to cut my losses or abandon my project at the penultimate step.
I am still waiting for help from my neighbor to tilt the tank for me to rout the final side and then I will post my pictures, I express my gratitude to all members of this community and especially @Cabinetman @ReefEco
I have made two tanks one is cube 23 X 23 and another is 60 X 24 X 20.
Thinner pins, 50 second soak, clamps, shims, Weldon 4 :
The Smaller cube I followed everything from this thread except the foam, i put million shims on the work MDF too but i used thinner acupuncture needles and 50 seconds soak time, the seam quality was not the greatest especially the bubbles, there were quite a few near the edge of seams still not the end of world several hobbyist i showed pictures assured me it is good work for the first time and it looks structurally sound, i have posted pictures of the tank here previously, I am proud of this work especially considering I am not going to sell it to anyone.
Thicker pins, 2 minutes 30 seconds soak, clamps , shims, Weldon 4:
The bigger tank, I followed similar but I used thicker sewing needles and soaked it for 2 to 3 minutes, the difference was very clear almost no bubbles within the seams, I still am curing my tank's last side, with some personal help from @Cabinetman who PMed me here after I posted my 4 sided fiasco and guided me to complete my 5th(Euro brace top) and 6th(Base) welding, I can safely say his help made me cross the finish line after all the doom and gloom I felt after I posted my 4th side parallelogram here, and happy to report I didn't have to cut my losses or abandon my project at the penultimate step.
I am still waiting for help from my neighbor to tilt the tank for me to rout the final side and then I will post my pictures, I express my gratitude to all members of this community and especially @Cabinetman @ReefEco
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