Adding a sump question about return pump

[Ramon84]

Good afternoon Reefers I am in the process of adding a sump. Looking for a return pump. How will I be able to know how strong of a pump I would need to get water flow back up to my DT?

 

[Kooma]

Tank your tank volume, times it by 10. If the sump is more than 5 feet away, times it by 12-15.

That’s your GPH you want. Don’t rush water through your sump.

SLOOOOWWWWW.

 

[Ramon84]

I have a evo with about 11 gallons so 11x10 =110 sump is 4 1/2 feet under so would I need a GPH of 110? Just wanted to make sure thank you!

 

[BryanM]

Helpful link: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cont...z1N-0u9-yu1nQeh4mjrtNt-DhTyhY7OBoCunYQAvD_BwE

Noteworthy though is with modern wavemakers IN the display tank, you can safely run as low as 1x turnover per hour. 5-10x, most of us today, feel is too much. 1-3x works great.

 

[Ramon84]

I just order this hope it work good it adjustable

 

[Ramon84]

Helpful link: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/md-2020-11-how-to-size-a-return-pump?utm_term=&utm_campaign=EL+|+ACQ_Prospecting_PMax+|+ROAS+|+Open+Targets+|+High+Margin&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&hsa_acc=7373341438&hsa_cam=17740353356&hsa_grp=&hsa_ad=&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt=&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20678136206&gbraid=0AAAAAD_LZB9qWYdo-wvZFwIntm-WjY6wv&gclid=CjwKCAjw_pDBBhBMEiwAmY02NrR2fDtAqQDTtqk9fsL2p4z1N-0u9-yu1nQeh4mjrtNt-DhTyhY7OBoCunYQAvD_BwE

Noteworthy though is with modern wavemakers IN the display tank, you can safely run as low as 1x turnover per hour. 5-10x, most of us today, feel is too much. 1-3x works great.

I have a AI Nero 3 wave maker in that DT

 

[Ramon84]

Purchase this tank for the sump

 

[Ramon84]

what everyone input on a over flow box and do I need to use one if not drilling tank or is there other ways of adding a sump with gravity to drain from DT and a return pump to get water back in DT?

 

[twentyleagues]

You have to have a way for water to get to the sump. I dont like hob overflows but some can get them to work properly. I want my tanks drillable or drilled. On your return pump you have to figure out if it will send water up to the tank its called head pressure. What is the head on that pump you posted? Most small cheap pumps have very little head maybe 3' or 1.5 meters at the height you would get very little flow if any at all the pump can not overcome the gravity. Most pumps designed for this will have max head listed and how much flow at that head or a power curve showing multiple measurements. The listed gph is typically right out of the pump with no head pressure.

 

[Freenow54]

Tank your tank volume, times it by 10. If the sump is more than 5 feet away, times it by 12-15.

That’s your GPH you want. Don’t rush water through your sump.

SLOOOOWWWWW.

Make sure it's DC and get a flow meter of your want to be exact. I assume earlier advise is accurate. I never worried just adjusted pump until I got the flow required by my coral. Usedu calibrated hand

 

[Ramon84]

It states that it has 4 feet of lift

 

[Ramon84]

It 2 feet up and gave and 2 angles so it 4 feet I believe

 

[twentyleagues]

It 2 feet up and gave and 2 angles so it 4 feet I believe

So if you have 4' of head and a pump that maxes out at 4'......
Does the pump say it has any flow at that max head?

 

[Ramon84]

So if you have 4' of head and a pump that maxes out at 4'......
Does the pump say it has any flow at that max head?

No it doesn’t

 

[UncommonSense]

I recommend looking at a few “pump head loss” charts on Google to wrap your mind around the calculation you’re working on!

Edit: I don’t think anyone mentioned this specifically; but the head measurement is the vertical height above a water line that you are trying to pump water… there is zero head pressure until you are pumping water out of water; fighting gravity!

 

[Ramon84]

I think I’m gonna return this pump and wait to do it right don’t want to spend a lot but rather have it work correct thank you everybody for the advice and help

 

[Ramon84]

So if you have 4' of head and a pump that maxes out at 4'......
Does the pump say it has any flow at that max head?

Curious I thought I wasn’t using the pump for flow in my tank that’s what I use the wave maker for I thought the pump was just to move the water into the tank. If I am not right I apologize.

 

[UncommonSense]

Curious I thought I wasn’t using the pump for flow in my tank that’s what I use the wave maker for I thought the pump was just to move the water into the tank. If I am not right I apologize.

Flow refers to any movement of a fluid!

Yes, the majority of the “mixing” of the water in the display is done by your wave maker(s)…

However, you also want to be continuously filtering this mixed up box of water…

So, the return pump in your sump is sized to let you recirculate water between tank and sump, effectively filtering it!

— others have mentioned the math for figuring out the flow rate through your sump; figure out how many ft of well height you’re doing, and the head loss flow charts will guide you from there!

I typically size my return pumps slightly large, as they can always be valved down to reduce flow as needed , even if there is no pump intake flow control!

 

[twentyleagues]

Curious I thought I wasn’t using the pump for flow in my tank that’s what I use the wave maker for I thought the pump was just to move the water into the tank. If I am not right I apologize.

You are correct but you want some flow as @UncommonSense said. That will probably work if everything else you have said is correct. You only have a rise of 2' and two "angles" 90s or 45s? You will have to mess with it or do the math and figure it out. I am not familure with that exact pump or the pumps that @UncommonSense posted the graphs for. The 1200 model looks close to yours but not all pumps are designed the same, I would use that graph and expect a bit less performance. Hopefully this works out well. What are you doing for the drain?

 

[UncommonSense]

I am not familure with that exact pump or the pumps that @UncommonSense posted the graphs for. The 1200 model looks close to yours but not all pumps are designed the same(…)

That’s just a chart I already had up for my own purposes, to offer reference for what to expect as you push water further and further up out of a body of water!

Many manufacturers don’t even have these handy head flow loss charts readily available…

Typically, you can assume that “max head height” is a point where the pump is more or less not moving any water at all (or at least not an appreciable amount) to it’s outlet.

So, you always want a higher maximum head (aka: lift, well) rating than you intend operate the pump at!

TLDR: the charts shown will work good enough for your purposes; assume you may get marginally less performance than shown with a cheaper pump!