Advise on beating cyano and nutrients question

[Dom]

Hi Dom, I will certainly try to increase my flow. I have thought about starting a refugium because I believe a natural method of reducing nutrients is best rather than trying to play scientist dosing carbon and using GFO. I may stop dosing NoPox at some point and set up a refugium as I have an empty space in my sump of about 10% of my display tank volume. I like the idea of nature playing its course and just pulling out some macroalgae every few weeks as nutrient export.

Agreed. I never liked bottled solutions. I mean, for supplementation, sure. But in my view, bottled solutions only mask the problem. Better to ID the problem and correct it.

Don't be afraid to keep your lights out for a few days, or at least cut intensity.

 

[dublinreefer]

I have noticed that the bacteria really takes hold and outcompetes the cyano within a month if you're consistent with your dosing

Nice, I think I'll make the purchase. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[MabuyaQ]

Hi MabuyaQ. I only feed one clam or mussel a day and I thought that frozen foods actually contain a lot less phosphates when compared to dry foods. I only started feeding these a few months back when I bought a copperband and I can't say that the cyano has got worse as a result. However I do believe that my PO4 and NO3 may not be in a balanced ratio as you have mentioned and that it is not healthy having them both at 0. I understand that adding bacteria at this particular moment may result in them starving and dying. I am pretty confused on whether I should increase or decrease feeding at this point but I think I will try and get my NO3 and PO4 levels up some and see what happens.

Frozen contains less than dry (in which phosphates are often used as preservatives). But what I am talking about is the higher phosphate to nitrate ratio in clams when compared to other foods liky mysis or brine shrimp.
So having to daily feed with clams is adding to the problem as it means the input of phosphate over nitrate is also higher which at low measurable amounts of nitrate creates a situation that is very favourable for cyano to outcompete other bacteria.
So in my opinion the first step should be to increase the input of nitrate without effecting the input of phosphate (as stop feeding the copperband clams isn't an option). For this you can use sodiumnitrate (or potassiumnitrate but make sure you monitor K-levels). Get the NO3 slowly into the 2ppm-5ppm range.
This way you can boost the other bacteria and monitor what hapens to PO4 (it is impossible to really know the flow of PO4 in an aquarium as it binds to or debinds from calciumcarbonate at equilibrium to the real input to the watercolomn) and determine if dosing PO4 is required if it won't go up to 0.02ppm (most likely is at which point you can simply feed some more mysis or other frozen food, not clams and start reducing the direct dosing of nitrate).
Only when your nitrates are stable within the 2ppm range is it truly possible to start adding bacteria to add competition (and you may want to dose some vinegar 3-4ml per 100 gallon, to further boost these bacteria with a carbon source). What is also usefull is keep breaking up the cyanolayer when the lights are at full power. As the red slime is protecting the bacteria from getting to much light as well as being where they store energy.

 

[dublinreefer]

Frozen contains less than dry (in which phosphates are often used as preservatives). But what I am talking about is the higher phosphate to nitrate ratio in clams when compared to other foods liky mysis or brine shrimp.
So having to daily feed with clams is adding to the problem as it means the input of phosphate over nitrate is also higher which at low measurable amounts of nitrate creates a situation that is very favourable for cyano to outcompete other bacteria.
So in my opinion the first step should be to increase the input of nitrate without effecting the input of phosphate (as stop feeding the copperband clams isn't an option). For this you can use sodiumnitrate (or potassiumnitrate but make sure you monitor K-levels). Get the NO3 slowly into the 2ppm-5ppm range.
This way you can boost the other bacteria and monitor what hapens to PO4 (it is impossible to really know the flow of PO4 in an aquarium as it binds to or debinds from calciumcarbonate at equilibrium to the real input to the watercolomn) and determine if dosing PO4 is required if it won't go up to 0.02ppm (most likely is at which point you can simply feed some more mysis or other frozen food, not clams and start reducing the direct dosing of nitrate).
Only when your nitrates are stable within the 2ppm range is it truly possible to start adding bacteria to add competition (and you may want to dose some vinegar 3-4ml per 100 gallon, to further boost these bacteria with a carbon source). What is also usefull is keep breaking up the cyanolayer when the lights are at full power. As the red slime is protecting the bacteria from getting to much light as well as being where they store energy.

Wow mabuyaQ, thanks a lot for the detailed response. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the advise.

 

[MalteseOne]

Just to clarify differences between @Dom and @mombuyaq one says lights out, the other says cyano hates the lights, so stir it up to remove protective slime layer.

I honestly don't know what to do because I'm trying to learn what to do as well.

 

[Aqua Man]

Nitrates and phosphates are both reading 0.

8 ml NOPOX Daily
350g (12 ounces) ROWAPHOS changed monthly

What’s your maintenance routine?

cyano is photosynthetic organism. Light out for 3 days, do a large water change after.

 

[lapin]

Just to clarify differences between @Dom and @mombuyaq one says lights out, the other says cyano hates the lights, so stir it up to remove protective slime layer.

I honestly don't know what to do because I'm trying to learn what to do as well.

Cyano bacteria grows best in clear, well lit, calm water. It is capable of making its own food. Here in Austin we now have a problem with what they call toxic "blue green algae" which is actually cyano bacteria. An increase in phosphate with clearer than normal water ( thank the zebra mussels for filtering out all the phyto out of the water). You could try adding Phytofeast and OysterFeast to your feeding routine. While not pretty for a few hours it might be enough to block some light the cyano is needing.

 

[Dom]

Just to clarify differences between @Dom and @mombuyaq one says lights out, the other says cyano hates the lights, so stir it up to remove protective slime layer.

I honestly don't know what to do because I'm trying to learn what to do as well.

From you reply, we've said the same thing.

You don't have to turn out your lights. I reduced my light intensity to 25% for a few days and pointed power heads to effected areas.

 

[Fennel]

A great way to naturally beat it is to add some type of heterotrophic oxidizing bacteria.... couple products would be pristine by seachem or vibrant for reefs, although it will take a while for the bacteria to produce and grow but really worth it in the long run... chemi clean is also a great product to get rid of cyano... another method would be erythromycin

Just dumped a whole bottle of pristine in.. toodles cyano.. I know.. I know.. I really should read directions. F it.

 

[PeterC99]

Three things got rid of my cyano:

1) Strong UV light
2) Started an Oxydator (look for threads on this site)
3) Phytoplankton every other day

Before and after pics (also have since increased the light intensity by 15% on my Radions)

Good Luck!