Advise on beating cyano and nutrients question

[dublinreefer]

Hi guys I have been struggling with what I think is cyano for over a year now. A little bit of cyano doesn't bother me but lately it has started to cover my whole sandbed and creep onto the rocks. I am unsure whether I am nutrient deficient or have too many nutrients. Nitrates and phosphates are both reading 0. My tank is decently stocked and I feed quite well. I have specifications on what I feed, stocking, photos and my filtration down below. I just want to get some advise on how to knock back this cyano some. Any input would be appreciated.

Volume:
725 litres total (190 gallons)

Feeding daily:
1 Mussel or Clam everyday (fussy copperband)
1/4 sheet of nori
2 cubes Mysis

Filtration:
Deltec 1500i skimmer
8 ml NOPOX Daily
350g (12 ounces) ROWAPHOS changed monthly
7" Filter Sock

Stocking:
Copperband Butterfly
Rabbitfish
Foxface
Dusky Wrasse
6 line wrasse
Tomini Tang
3 clownfish
2 bangai cardinals

 

[lapin]

Cyano hates flow.
It loves light.

 

[Idoc]

Cyano seems to thrive on nutrient fluctuations...I've seen it with high nutrients and low nutrients. But fluctuations and different light levels seem to bring it about for me. I would get a microscope and take a look at it, though. A couple of the pics seem to have a red coloration to them, but the brown colored photo makes me nervous for dinos. Cyano and Dinos seem to work together as well.

 

[jorwill]

Firstly to get rid of cyano youll need to send one of those torch heads you got my way

But no seriously, looking at your daily feeding for that 190g system is not enough. youve also got some tiny fish in that system compared to your tank volume.

Get more fish, and feed double what you are now(not the nori). Have you thought about an auto feeder? You could have that setup to feed 2 times daily and you can feed the frozen cubes once a day.

 

[jorwill]

Also missed this:
8 ml NOPOX Daily

This will strip out your n/p, that is what nopox does

 

[KCheeze]

A great way to naturally beat it is to add some type of heterotrophic oxidizing bacteria.... couple products would be pristine by seachem or vibrant for reefs, although it will take a while for the bacteria to produce and grow but really worth it in the long run... chemi clean is also a great product to get rid of cyano... another method would be erythromycin

 

[jorwill]

A great way to naturally beat it is to add some type of heterotrophic oxidizing bacteria.... couple products would be pristine by seachem or vibrant for reefs, although it will take a while for the bacteria to produce and grow but really worth it in the long run... chemi clean is also a great product to get rid of cyano... another method would be erythromycin

I am not a fan of chemi clean, while it does work youll most defiantely get dinos after its cleared the cyano up. Microbacter7, great bacteria product and works well as well.

 

[dublinreefer]

Cyano seems to thrive on nutrient fluctuations...I've seen it with high nutrients and low nutrients. But fluctuations and different light levels seem to bring it about for me. I would get a microscope and take a look at it, though. A couple of the pics seem to have a red coloration to them, but the brown colored photo makes me nervous for dinos. Cyano and Dinos seem to work together as well.

Hi Idoc, thanks a lot for the reply. I really hope it is not dinos but i may have to check like you said with a microscope.

 

[dublinreefer]

Firstly to get rid of cyano youll need to send one of those torch heads you got my way

But no seriously, looking at your daily feeding for that 190g system is not enough. youve also got some tiny fish in that system compared to your tank volume.

Get more fish, and feed double what you are now(not the nori). Have you thought about an auto feeder? You could have that setup to feed 2 times daily and you can feed the frozen cubes once a day.

Hi jorwill thanks for the reply. If u were Ireland I would certainly give you some torches, I have them growing all over the place in my tank for some reason. Anyway I may try and feed my fish more and try and get nitrates and phosphates up a bit. I was just wondering why you don't recommend to feed more nori? I may also consider dosing some microbactor7 after a while as I've heard great things about it.

 

[dublinreefer]

A great way to naturally beat it is to add some type of heterotrophic oxidizing bacteria.... couple products would be pristine by seachem or vibrant for reefs, although it will take a while for the bacteria to produce and grow but really worth it in the long run... chemi clean is also a great product to get rid of cyano... another method would be erythromycin

Hi KCheeze, I was thinking about dosing microbactor7, slowly of course, but how long would you say it would take for the bacteria to reproduce or grow to start outcompeting the cyano?

 

[MabuyaQ]

The 'problem' is most likely the clams you feed as they tend to be rich in phosphate so most likely there is still plenty for cyano but there isn't enough nitrates for other bacteria or microalgae to outcompete them.

Just adding bacteria won't fix this as they would simply starve and end up as cyano food. Given that you have been having cyano issues for some time it is advisable to add bacteria, but not without feeding them directly. Nitrates (sodiumnitrate) at first and possibly phosphates in the long run (although just feeding more fishfood would be bettervat that point).

I have the no problems with pests like cyano or, dinos when PO4 and NO3 are at a stable ratio of 1:100. In general I keep PO4 between 0.02ppm-0.05ppm because that is where my corals look the best which means I keep nitrates between 2ppm-5ppm.

 

[dublinreefer]

The 'problem' is most likely the clams you feed as they tend to be rich in phosphate so most likely there is still plenty for cyano but there isn't enough nitrates for other bacteria or microalgae to outcompete them.

Just adding bacteria won't fix this as they would simply starve and end up as cyano food. Given that you have been having cyano issues for some time it is advisable to add bacteria, but not without feeding them directly. Nitrates (sodiumnitrate) at first and possibly phosphates in the long run (although just feeding more fishfood would be bettervat that point).

I have the no problems with pests like cyano or, dinos when PO4 and NO3 are at a stable ratio of 1:100. In general I keep PO4 between 0.02ppm-0.05ppm because that is where my corals look the best which means I keep nitrates between 2ppm-5ppm.

Hi MabuyaQ. I only feed one clam or mussel a day and I thought that frozen foods actually contain a lot less phosphates when compared to dry foods. I only started feeding these a few months back when I bought a copperband and I can't say that the cyano has got worse as a result. However I do believe that my PO4 and NO3 may not be in a balanced ratio as you have mentioned and that it is not healthy having them both at 0. I understand that adding bacteria at this particular moment may result in them starving and dying. I am pretty confused on whether I should increase or decrease feeding at this point but I think I will try and get my NO3 and PO4 levels up some and see what happens.

 

[MrDLHughesY]

I would say you need to feed more you have a 190gal tank and only feed 2 cubes of mysis per day I have a 13.5 gal tank and feed 1 cube and I only have 1 clown, Midas blenny, blue damsel and a watchman goby. Cleanup crew is minimal also few hermits, trochus snails, nassarius snalis, tuxedo urchin,peppermint shrimp and a tiger pistol shrimp

 

[Dom]

Increase your flow with powerbeads and reduce your light intensity. You may want to consider no lighting for a few days too.

Do you operate a refugium?

 

[dublinreefer]

I would say you need to feed more you have a 190gal tank and only feed 2 cubes of mysis per day I have a 13.5 gal tank and feed 1 cube and I only have 1 clown, Midas blenny, blue damsel and a watchman goby. Cleanup crew is minimal also few hermits, trochus snails, nassarius snalis, tuxedo urchin,peppermint shrimp and a tiger pistol shrimp

Hi MrDLHughesY, I think you could be right and that I should feed more. A lot of conflicting advise out there but I think people agree that cyano and dinos can thrive even in ultra low nutrients. Hopefully an increase in nitrates and phosphates may help other organisms to outcompete the cyano.

 

[dublinreefer]

Increase your flow with powerbeads and reduce your light intensity. You may want to consider no lighting for a few days too.

Do you operate a refugium?

Hi Dom, I will certainly try to increase my flow. I have thought about starting a refugium because I believe a natural method of reducing nutrients is best rather than trying to play scientist dosing carbon and using GFO. I may stop dosing NoPox at some point and set up a refugium as I have an empty space in my sump of about 10% of my display tank volume. I like the idea of nature playing its course and just pulling out some macroalgae every few weeks as nutrient export.

 

[Idoc]

Hi Idoc, thanks a lot for the reply. I really hope it is not dinos but i may have to check like you said with a microscope.

I think a microscope purchase is one of the best things to obtain with our hobby. The $15 kid scopes give some views...but it is rough to see through them clearly. I have an Amscope 150C which was about $80...it is awesome and has everything needed for really clear images for what we look at regularly.

 

[dublinreefer]

I think a microscope purchase is one of the best things to obtain with our hobby. The $15 kid scopes give some views...but it is rough to see through them clearly. I have an Amscope 150C which was about $80...it is awesome and has everything needed for really clear images for what we look at regularly.

Hi idoc, great recommendation and I might make the purchase this weekend. Thanks for ur help.

 

[Idoc]

Hi idoc, great recommendation and I might make the purchase this weekend. Thanks for ur help.

My model works well...but you do have to have a steady hand to take pics with your phone through the eyepiece!

 

[KCheeze]

Hi KCheeze, I was thinking about dosing microbactor7, slowly of course, but how long would you say it would take for the bacteria to reproduce or grow to start outcompeting the cya

Hi KCheeze, I was thinking about dosing microbactor7, slowly of course, but how long would you say it would take for the bacteria to reproduce or grow to start outcompeting the cyano?

I have noticed that the bacteria really takes hold and outcompetes the cyano within a month if you're consistent with your dosing