AF Life Source

[Suesea]

GUYS BRS HAS IT IN STOCK NOW!

Shhh. Let me get some first. It was a long wait.

 

[Suesea]

Brs has it now

I just got some.... I can't believe it thanks for reaching out. I gave up and forgot about this thread. I used it as a flocculant. It will last longer than me lol. I hope you guys get some.

 

[Suesea]

I was thinking would putting ocean water in your tank occasionally hurt it because of pollution or the things living in it? Or would it give it a boost like af life force.

 

[Randy’s reef]

I was thinking would putting ocean water in your tank occasionally hurt it because of pollution or the things living in it? Or would it give it a boost like af life force.

I would just do life source , ocean water seems good but bacteria lives in sand on rocks not really water for populating

 

[Randy’s reef]

I was thinking would putting ocean water in your tank occasionally hurt it because of pollution or the things living in it? Or would it give it a boost like af life force.

Idk could be wrong tho

 

[Suesea]

Idk could be wrong tho

I found out this weekend what happened to AF life source for a bit. They had been finding metals in the mud and found the site had been contaminated. My aunt who lives in Poland told me the story... which the company is based there so I tend to believe her. Anyway they openly told consumers they are relocating to a different site and testing, testing, testing after they were only offering the 1000g size.

 

[Saltyanimals]

In research mode on this product. As having never actually touched or seen it, I noticed the instructions cited here was to mix in water then dose. If it's just mud (like miracle mud), why not just allow it to settle in a open top container and sit in the sump?

My goal is to increase biodiversity which is why I started using miracle mud again in my new upgrade. Used M.M years ago in a successful tank so just thinking through what worked before.. and this seems to be the NEW M.M.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

In research mode on this product. As having never actually touched or seen it, I noticed the instructions cited here was to mix in water then dose. If it's just mud (like miracle mud), why not just allow it to settle in a open top container and sit in the sump?

My goal is to increase biodiversity which is why I started using miracle mud again in my new upgrade. Used M.M years ago in a successful tank so just thinking through what worked before.. and this seems to be the NEW M.M.

It's good stuff

 

[gbru316]

In research mode on this product. As having never actually touched or seen it, I noticed the instructions cited here was to mix in water then dose. If it's just mud (like miracle mud), why not just allow it to settle in a open top container and sit in the sump?

My goal is to increase biodiversity which is why I started using miracle mud again in my new upgrade. Used M.M years ago in a successful tank so just thinking through what worked before.. and this seems to be the NEW M.M.

MM is deep ocean mud with additions who's purpose is to create anaerobic zones for denitrification (and to work as a 'fuge substrate).

EcoSystem Aquarium’s famous mud substrate is composed of up to 80% oceanic mud from deep waters. After it is extracted, this natural material is dried on land. Then, a truly huge number of elements are added (the remaining 20% of the product).

Life source is reef/reef adjacent mud used to increase biodiversity and provide minerals/elements that livestock would normally "see" in the ocean -- particularly after the biome has been stirred up like after a storm or period of heavy wave action.

100% natural deposit derived from the cleanest waters of the Pacific – from Fiji. It is perfect as a buffer to enhance microbiology in saltwater aquariums. Biological stabilization is a crucial factor for corals health. Using the AF Life Source provides corals access to components and minerals derived from the natural environment. The product is also an excellent complement an algae refugium and DSB.

Similar product, different use cases.

I dose it weekly per the instructions.

 

[Joe's Coral Reef]

I'm confused I thought with mud you put it in a tray in sump but it seems like some of the players on this thread are dosing it?

 

[gbru316]

I'm confused I thought with mud you put it in a tray in sump but it seems like some of the players on this thread are dosing it?

Yes. Recommendation is to dose. This is not meant as a substrate. It is not meant as a replacement for Miracle Mud.

"We recommend that you use it a minimum of once a week, adding 10 ml/100 L (27 US gal) aquarium. To ensure that corals permanent access to the minerals dose in a high flow water, it contains valuable minerals and nutrients are permanently released into the aquarium. After dosing, the water will become cloudy, this is perfectly normal and not harmful for the tank inhabitants. Due to its natural origin, the product may contain pieces of coral reef, small rocks and other matter from the natural environment."

[:en]Aquaforest (AF) Life Source - Aquaforest Official Website[:pl]Aquaforest (AF) Life Source - oficjalna strona Aquaforest[:]

aquaforest.eu

 

[Saltyanimals]

MM is deep ocean mud with additions who's purpose is to create anaerobic zones for denitrification (and to work as a 'fuge substrate).



Life source is reef/reef adjacent mud used to increase biodiversity and provide minerals/elements that livestock would normally "see" in the ocean -- particularly after the biome has been stirred up like after a storm or period of heavy wave action.



Similar product, different use cases.

I dose it weekly per the instructions.

Your point is exactly the root of my question. Similar product in an deep ocean "mud" extracted in a similar fashion hence the question on the difference in application and use. If we use AF to dose, that implies a measured release. Wouldn't letting AF sit in a open top have similar slow release benefits if it is after all deep ocean mud. And this release includes the bact/bio diversity benefits for both muds?

 

[Suesea]

In research mode on this product. As having never actually touched or seen it, I noticed the instructions cited here was to mix in water then dose. If it's just mud (like miracle mud), why not just allow it to settle in a open top container and sit in the sump?

My goal is to increase biodiversity which is why I started using miracle mud again in my new upgrade. Used M.M years ago in a successful tank so just thinking through what worked before.. and this seems to be the NEW M.M.

I use it as a flocculant for when I scrap the glass at night. I wake up to sparkling clear water. So glad @Randy's reef let me know it was back in stock. This bag should last a long long time.

 

[gbru316]

Your point is exactly the root of my question. Similar product in an deep ocean "mud" extracted in a similar fashion hence the question on the difference in application and use. If we use AF to dose, that implies a measured release. Wouldn't letting AF sit in a open top have similar slow release benefits if it is after all deep ocean mud. And this release includes the bact/bio diversity benefits for both muds?

It's similar only in that they're both mud taken from the ocean. But Life source isn't deep ocean mud. It's shallow ocean mud. And it doesn't have the additives that the makers of MM added to it after harvesting. AF is almost entirely silt, whereas it looks like MM has more larger particles overall.


You will not get the inoculation of higher order bacteria/microfauna on your aquascape (therefore displacing/claiming physical space that could be used by lower order organisms) by putting it in a container in your sump. Your livestock will also not have as much access to whatever is in Life Source by doing so, because dosing it puts it in direct contact with your aquascape and livestock.

The flocculant aspect of it will be lost, too, if you choose to place in a container.


I see no conclusive reason to deviate from their recommended use. If you're looking to use it like miracle mud, just buy miracle mud.

 

[Suesea]

Your point is exactly the root of my question. Similar product in an deep ocean "mud" extracted in a similar fashion hence the question on the difference in application and use. If we use AF to dose, that implies a measured release. Wouldn't letting AF sit in a open top have similar slow release benefits if it is after all deep ocean mud. And this release includes the bact/bio diversity benefits for both muds?

No no if you were to put AF mud in an open top fashion it would disperse all at once, that's why you dose once a week. MM is a course sandy substrate looking media that really doesn't disperse or dissolve like AF life source does. I have both, I didn't use the MM once I saw what it looked like. I was trying to find something that would work as well as AF since everyone seemed to be out. I can take pics of both if you like to show the huge difference.

 

[Suesea]

It's similar only in that they're both mud taken from the ocean. But Life source isn't deep ocean mud. It's shallow ocean mud. And it doesn't have the additives that the makers of MM added to it after harvesting. AF is almost entirely silt, whereas it looks like MM has more larger particles overall.


You will not get the inoculation of higher order bacteria/microfauna on your aquascape (therefore displacing/claiming physical space that could be used by lower order organisms) by putting it in a container in your sump. Your livestock will also not have as much access to whatever is in Life Source by doing so, because dosing it puts it in direct contact with your aquascape and livestock.

The flocculant aspect of it will be lost, too, if you choose to place in a container.


I see no conclusive reason to deviate from their recommended use. If you're looking to use it like miracle mud, just buy miracle mud.

Yes exactly well put. That's what I was trying to say lol

 

[Saltyanimals]

It's similar only in that they're both mud taken from the ocean. But Life source isn't deep ocean mud. It's shallow ocean mud. And it doesn't have the additives that the makers of MM added to it after harvesting. AF is almost entirely silt, whereas it looks like MM has more larger particles overall.


You will not get the inoculation of higher order bacteria/microfauna on your aquascape (therefore displacing/claiming physical space that could be used by lower order organisms) by putting it in a container in your sump. Your livestock will also not have as much access to whatever is in Life Source by doing so, because dosing it puts it in direct contact with your aquascape and livestock.

The flocculant aspect of it will be lost, too, if you choose to place in a container.


I see no conclusive reason to deviate from their recommended use. If you're looking to use it like miracle mud, just buy miracle mud.

BTW. Good discussions. Thank you. This is why we have good healthy community discussions to better understand our hobby and products we dump into the glass box. =)

Going back to some of your points to get some reactions and/or perspectives. You seem to personally know the product technically well.

1) Where it's collected and let's assume for conversation sake that deep ocean is subjective as it's not quantitative. AF video says their diver collected at 10-15 meters deep and basically raw mud sifted and distributed. Taking the 20% unknown additional "miracle" minerals/trace elements and others things that MM adds to their product aside, it is still 80% biodiversity and ocean dirt mineral benefits. This means to me.. it's basically the same or similar product.
2) Assume above it's primarily the same product maybe collected from different physical locations. It appears how we apply it to determine the use case and benefit? Dose the AF and allow it to settle in different places suggest that we're using it to physically seed. Wouldn't MM mixed and distributed in the same fashion then make it the same seeding benefit?

The days of using MM as a true sump substrate to grow say mangroves and have a denitrifying from the 90s may be long gone and replaced by other modern denitrifying methods and alternatives. This leaves the remaining benefit of biodiversity and minerals/trace.

5lbs of MM at $40 or 1000gs of AF at $48

Point here is not about the $$$, but to compare the products from a benefits perspective. Are they similar things?

 

[gbru316]

BTW. Good discussions. Thank you. This is why we have good healthy community discussions to better understand our hobby and products we dump into the glass box. =)

Going back to some of your points to get some reactions and/or perspectives. You seem to personally know the product technically well.

1) Where it's collected and let's assume for conversation sake that deep ocean is subjective as it's not quantitative. AF video says their diver collected at 10-15 meters deep and basically raw mud sifted and distributed. Taking the 20% unknown additional "miracle" minerals/trace elements and others things that MM adds to their product aside, it is still 80% biodiversity and ocean dirt mineral benefits. This means to me.. it's basically the same or similar product.
2) Assume above it's primarily the same product maybe collected from different physical locations. It appears how we apply it to determine the use case and benefit? Dose the AF and allow it to settle in different places suggest that we're using it to physically seed. Wouldn't MM mixed and distributed in the same fashion then make it the same seeding benefit?

The days of using MM as a true sump substrate to grow say mangroves and have a denitrifying from the 90s may be long gone and replaced by other modern denitrifying methods and alternatives. This leaves the remaining benefit of biodiversity and minerals/trace.

5lbs of MM at $40 or 1000gs of AF at $48

Point here is not about the $$$, but to compare the products from a benefits perspective. Are they similar things?

lol I’m not an expert, just a weekly user!

No, I do not believe that they are similar enough to be used interchangeably. Life source is more like raw clay, whereas MM is more like sand/gravel.

Add a scoop of MM (stirred with tank water beforehand) to your tank and it’ll settle to the bottom pretty quickly, with minimal fines being distributed Add a scoop of life source to your tank (again, stirred), and I’ll cloud your whole tank for a few hours with minimal larger pieces sinking to the bottom.

The typical grain size of the two products is vastly different and is, IMO, the limiting factor that prevents them from being used as substitutes.

These two videos show each product -- notice the difference in grain size (Full video for Life Source to show dosing, MM video starts at view of grains):

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Is there any concerns with introducing parasites or bad things when using this? Any links to who has it in stock! Thanks

 

[gbru316]

Is there any concerns with introducing parasites or bad things when using this? Any links to who has it in stock! Thanks

I've no concerns. Though, I'm planning on taking a quick trip to the beach to collect some amphipods for my tank soon. I might be a bit less concerned with parasites or "Bad things" than some on here.