After 6 years, still having problems. Desperately Need Help!

[Jmunk]

So my tank is over 6 years old now. All the fish are the same core, and they're all doing well. But even after 6 years, there is just something about algae and even coral that I just can't ever get down in this hobby. Here's the tank today. Mind you, I moved tanks about 4-5 months ago after buying my first house. Used the same rock and didn't really see a cycle, though I suspect those diatoms? on the sand might be caused by the move.

Coral eventually almost always die in this tank. They'll survive for a while, some even flourish and grow rapidly (even some lower level SPS and plating SPS), but eventually they will brown out, algae takes them over, or they'll otherwise stop all polyp extension and wither away.

Alk: 8.6
Calc: 430
Mag: ~1300
Nitrate: 25
PO4: ~1 (I know, this is probably the "red flag", but I'll speak about this later).

I have always battled with high phosphate. At it's best, it hovers around a .30 - .50. At its worst, like now, it's around 1. I feed everyday, between 1-2 times a day, sometimes once a day. I'll feed around a half a cube of frozen brine/mysis and hikari pellets each feeding. So everyday is about a cube of frozen and pellets. I have 6 fish. I really don't think that's to much food. I see people on these forums feeding CONSIDERABLY more and not having problems. I also see beautiful tanks in the 1 PO4 range, filled with colorful SPS. I've never been one to hunt down a number, but at this point, I feel like I have to do something and that might include a change of mindset. Thing is, even if it was the food, I attribute my success keeping fish fat, healthy, and alive for years is also the food, and how much I feed them - so do I really want that to change?

Now you know how much I put in, here's what I do to take the nutrients out. I admittedly don't do enough water changes. I might do one every 2 months or so. I have a Reef Octopus Classic 200 INT skimmer that oddly fills up the skimmate cup extremely slowly (I can go months without emptying it). As of the move 4 months ago, I now have a refugium (in which I can't get chaeto to grow, as it'll turn white and wither away too). I don't use filter socks.

It seems like I can just never do anything right, except for keeping the fish nice and healthy. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Jmunk]

Forgot to mention my lights! (pretty important!). I'm using the Aquatic Life Hybrid T5 fixture. I have 4 T5 bulbs and two Kessil A360x's. Funny enough, yesterday I tried the PAR iphone app that's been going on around these forums. I was getting ~30 at the sand bed and ~130 at the top of the water. I'm not sure how much I want to trust an iPhone app for PAR, but it's there, and I figured I should mention that.

 

[attiland]

Have you ever ID your algae with a microscope? Especially the one on the sand?
What is the nitrate level? If 0 that is your problem. Chaeto needs it to grow also iron

 

[attiland]

Forgot to mention my lights! (pretty important!). I'm using the Aquatic Life Hybrid T5 fixture. I have 4 T5 bulbs and two Kessil A360x's. Funny enough, yesterday I tried the PAR iphone app that's been going on around these forums. I was getting ~30 at the sand bed and ~130 at the top of the water. I'm not sure how much I want to trust an iPhone app for PAR, but it's there, and I figured I should mention that.

That PAR seems to be low too

 

[Jmunk]

That PAR seems to be low too

I'll measure nitrate again right now and reply. Last time I checked it was 0, but that was honestly a while ago. All other numbers were from this week.

And yeah, those numbers are real low. I just can't believe that light setup is generating that PAR. Also, it's an iphone app, so - you know. Hard to know if I should believe those numbers.

 

[CanuckReefer]

I'll measure nitrate again right now and reply. Last time I checked it was 0, but that was honestly a while ago. All other numbers were from this week.

And yeah, those numbers are real low. I just can't believe that light setup is generating that PAR. Also, it's an iphone app, so - you know. Hard to know if I should believe those numbers.

The zero on the nitrates and high phos are concerning me. What are the fish? I mix my own frozen from wild caught ( low phos) , and feed a lot of greens. Phos is negligible, and nitrates around 10 -15 fairly consistent, no skimmer. That Par is quite a bit low for the fixtures you list. They should imo be more than enough. When last time a lamp change in that 4 lamp T5? Maybe it is the app... I feel your pain....it took me probably 5 years to get things truly in line. Stick with it.....water changes at every two months may be a culprit as well... I do a small amount 2-3% every 3 or 4 days.

 

[Jmunk]

The zero on the nitrates and high phos are concerning me. What are the fish? I mix my own frozen from wild caught ( low phos) , and feed a lot of greens. Phos is negligible, and nitrates around 10 -15 fairly consistent, no skimmer. That Par is quite a bit low for the fixtures you list. They should imo be more than enough. When last time a lamp change in that 4 lamp T5? Maybe it is the app... I feel your pain....it took me probably 5 years to get things truly in line. Stick with it.....water changes at every two months may be a culprit as well... I do a small amount 2-3% every 3 or 4 days.

Just measured nitrate with the nyos test kit. Came in right at about 25.

Lamp change was literally about 2-3 weeks ago. Not to mention, the kessils (at peak) are around 80% int, so even with the T5's completely off, I don't think I could only get 30 PAR at the sand bed.

 

[Frostblitz20]

whats your CUC like? do you have anything to shift through and clean up the sandbed like fighter couches/snails/crabs?

 

[Calm Blue Ocean]

I'd consider the water change schedule or lack of and this is from my own experience with unusually high nitrate and phosphate. I have always aimed for 10% per week and thought I was doing exactly that except I wasn't. I started making note of when I did water changes and it turned out my weekly water changes were sometimes closer to every week and a half to every two weeks! All this to say, once I got back to honest weekly water changes my numbers stopped climbing and overall stability in my system improved.

 

[Jmunk]

whats your CUC like? do you have anything to shift through and clean up the sandbed like fighter couches/snails/crabs?

Not a lot. There's always just counteracting opinion in this community, at least I feel, for what works. I've seen some people say a lot of CUC will lead to death and contribute to your core problems. Others have said that it's the primary solution for it. I will think about adding some more from reef cleaners, but in the past, I never really found that they were the solution to my problems.

 

[Jmunk]

I'd consider the water change schedule or lack of and this is from my own experience with unusually high nitrate and phosphate. I have always aimed for 10% per week and thought I was doing exactly that except I wasn't. I started making note of when I did water changes and it turned out my weekly water changes were sometimes closer to every week and a half to every two weeks! All this to say, once I got back to honest weekly water changes my numbers stopped climbing and overall stability in my system improved.

I hear you. Like in my last post, it's just so hard with so many people with differing opinions. I think water changes and whether or not they are beneficial/worth it is one of the most common talked about ones with a lot of varying opinions. Maybe you're right though, commit to a 20% bi-weekly water change and reevaluate in a few months?

 

[Reef - Tripp]

What type of rock do you have and what ph.

 

[Calm Blue Ocean]

I hear you. Like in my last post, it's just so hard with so many people with differing opinions. I think water changes and whether or not they are beneficial/worth it is one of the most common talked about ones with a lot of varying opinions. Maybe you're right though, commit to a 20% bi-weekly water change and reevaluate in a few months?

If it's one thing that there is no shortage of in this hobby it's opinions! And this is just mine, of course, but I feel like the ability to cut back on water changes goes with tank maturity. My nano has fairly old mature rock and a lot of rock for the water volume. With that tank I get away with being extremely random with water changes. If I find I'm cleaning the glass too often, it must be time for a water change. My 50g was started with dry rock and it's just a more temperamental beast. I'm hoping once it matures a bit more I can relax a little but it's going to have to earn my trust first.

 

[CanuckReefer]

I'd consider the water change schedule or lack of and this is from my own experience with unusually high nitrate and phosphate. I have always aimed for 10% per week and thought I was doing exactly that except I wasn't. I started making note of when I did water changes and it turned out my weekly water changes were sometimes closer to every week and a half to every two weeks! All this to say, once I got back to honest weekly water changes my numbers stopped climbing and overall stability in my system improved.

Yes this ^^^ mine are slightly less percentage but more frequently. 2-3% every 3-4 days.

 

[CanuckReefer]

Not a lot. There's always just counteracting opinion in this community, at least I feel, for what works. I've seen some people say a lot of CUC will lead to death and contribute to your core problems. Others have said that it's the primary solution for it. I will think about adding some more from reef cleaners, but in the past, I never really found that they were the solution to my problems.

Death? CUC ? Who are these people? What is tank size and what is your current stock , ALL species...the odd CUC member may die, if not enough to forage but core problems? That's wild....totally freaking wild...

 

[Jmunk]

What type of rock do you have and what ph.

Most of this rock I got 6 years ago from LFS, so I honestly don't remember. I do remember that a couple pieces were that very heavy fake "purple" real reef rock. Not very porous. I don't know the ph, don't have a probe for it.

 

[Jmunk]

If it's one thing that there is no shortage of in this hobby it's opinions! And this is just mine, of course, but I feel like the ability to cut back on water changes goes with tank maturity. My nano has fairly old mature rock and a lot of rock for the water volume. With that tank I get away with being extremely random with water changes. If I find I'm cleaning the glass too often, it must be time for a water change. My 50g was started with dry rock and it's just a more temperamental beast. I'm hoping once it matures a bit more I can relax a little but it's going to have to earn my trust first.

Exactly, that's why I feel like at this point, SIX years into this tank's life, bi-weekly water changes would be more of a nice thing to do rather than a requirement to not keep everything from dying.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Appears to be bacterial - cyano likely. Is tank at or near a window?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?
Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development
I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[Jmunk]

Death? CUC ? Who are these people? What is tank size and what is your current stock , ALL species...the odd CUC member may die, if not enough to forage but core problems? That's wild....totally freaking wild...

I think I vaguely remember a BRS video saying that too much CUC can cause the CUC to die from starvation further leading you into having more PO4 and nitrate problems, causing you to think you need more CUC, and the cycle goes on. Don't hold me to it, but that's at least what I remember.

Tank is (after the home move) a red sea 625 xl - so 135 gallons. Used to be a 90 for the other 5 1/2 years. Fish are:

• Mag foxface
• Chromis
• Two clownfish
• Scopas tang

 

[Jmunk]

Appears to be bacterial - cyano likely. Is tank at or near a window?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet?
Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development
I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

The tank is near a window, yes, doesn't get really all that much sunlight however.
I'm using a 5-stage BRS RODI unit, always have, never used tap water. It's 0 TDS output. Are you saying a protein skimmer is causing cyano blooms? Confused on that point.
No live rock has been added in a year or two, everything has been in the tank for years.
I'm using two MP40s on either end.

This is good info for the cyano, but I've gotten periods of cyano before, and really haven't had a problem getting rid of it. I've used redcyano rx and it's worked flawlessly. I know it appears that I have some, but that's not really what I'm concerned about, I just haven't gotten around to dosing redcyano. I'm more concerned about the health of the corals in the tank. I am, though, fully aware that what's causing the cyano could be the contributing factor to the corals not doing well.