alibaba led bars vs high end led bars

[92Miata]

All to create similar, but far more economical units. Take a look at a bulk supply of OSRAM and CREE LEDs and run the math. The margins on the higher-end lights are not super huge (especially when you start tossing in things like Wifi, multiple channel controllability, software development, etc).

None of these things are actually that expensive, or add meaningful cost to a product at this point. There are dozens of different microcontrollers now that spec out at less than a dollar a chip, have full wifi and blutooth stacks, can control 5-10 channels of PWM, and are programmable with common, readily available tools, including frameworks for web hosting. I've yet to see a light with software that isn't what I'd consider, at max, a couple weeks worth of work for a competent developer - and most of them are built on precanned frameworks . There's nothing in these lights that's particularly complicated or innovative.

The lion's share of the cost is the LEDs themselves, and the drivers.

 

[JNalley]

The reason the 5 finger shoes went away is they were causing foot issues. We used them for sparring and soon found out they were worse then just being bare foot.

I wore them for a decade, never had foot issues and cleared up my lower back issues, I think most people's misconception is that they're normal shoes and you should walk normally in them. This is a completely false assumption. Heel-strike walking (what happens with regular shoes) is a hard habit to break, and walking that way in 5-Fingers is a quick way to having foot problems. I don't see how that would have caused an issue while sparring vs bare feet though, and bare feet are always better anyways when talking about foot health. Not to get too far off-topic though...

Do you have any links to credible info on that vibram molds swap thing you layer out? I never seen true copies of those only similar designs, most with the 2 smallest digits connected into a single toe.

Unfortunately, being such old information, I cannot get you direct links of the Chinese Knock-Offs that used to exist, but this article " https://birthdayshoes.com/these-are...nd-other-pirated-black-market-five-toed-shoes " talks briefly about the "third-shift" and "grey-market" fakes that popped up around that time and some of the differences (often use of one lower design with a different upper design, or using a neoprene material for the upper, shinier bits, etc). When I used to wear Vibrams (for the 10-ish years from their launch until they became extremely difficult to find for a reasonable price), and includes some of the images. I had a bunch of images of the fakes alongside the real deal from the Vibram Product website. Some fakes were extremely convincing and not at all like the Pubu or Tommy Hifliger fakes from the years before. (Note: Fubu and Tommy Hilfiger intentionally misspelled as the Knock-Off items often were).

Also another point switching out wiring, metal thicknesses ect is not cost effective, or likely to happen due to the high risk of the items getting mixed together due to shift changes.

switching out the gauge of wire, and gauge of metal is definitely cost-effective, and while there is a small risk of cross-contamination, it's not really difficult to have a "3rd Shift" spool/supply and a "every-other-shift" spool/supply. Especially when the M/O is "Their" business during normal operating hours "Our" business outside of those hours. It ensures that the plants get shut down, cleaned out, and inspected between each of the 2 opposing business models.

 

[Shooter6]

I wore them for a decade, never had foot issues and cleared up my lower back issues, I think most people's misconception is that they're normal shoes and you should walk normally in them. This is a completely false assumption. Heel-strike walking (what happens with regular shoes) is a hard habit to break, and walking that way in 5-Fingers is a quick way to having foot problems. I don't see how that would have caused an issue while sparring vs bare feet though, and bare feet are always better anyways when talking about foot health. Not to get too far off-topic though...

Unfortunately, being such old information, I cannot get you direct links of the Chinese Knock-Offs that used to exist, but this article " https://birthdayshoes.com/these-are...nd-other-pirated-black-market-five-toed-shoes " talks briefly about the "third-shift" and "grey-market" fakes that popped up around that time and some of the differences (often use of one lower design with a different upper design, or using a neoprene material for the upper, shinier bits, etc). When I used to wear Vibrams (for the 10-ish years from their launch until they became extremely difficult to find for a reasonable price), and includes some of the images. I had a bunch of images of the fakes alongside the real deal from the Vibram Product website. Some fakes were extremely convincing and not at all like the Pubu or Tommy Hifliger fakes from the years before. (Note: Fubu and Tommy Hilfiger intentionally misspelled as the Knock-Off items often were).

switching out the gauge of wire, and gauge of metal is definitely cost-effective, and while there is a small risk of cross-contamination, it's not really difficult to have a "3rd Shift" spool/supply and a "every-other-shift" spool/supply. Especially when the M/O is "Their" business during normal operating hours "Our" business outside of those hours. It ensures that the plants get shut down, cleaned out, and inspected between each of the 2 opposing business models.

Foot issues people had were mostly from running in them. Causing fractures in bones in the foot, shin splints, strained tendons in the arch of the foot.

As for injuries from sparring, that was rolled, sprained ankles and knees from them getting to much grip on the mat, at the wrong times.

 

[JNalley]

None of these things are actually that expensive, or add meaningful cost to a product at this point. There are dozens of different microcontrollers now that spec out at less than a dollar a chip, have full wifi and blutooth stacks, can control 5-10 channels of PWM, and are programmable with common, readily available tools, including frameworks for web hosting. I've yet to see a light with software that isn't what I'd consider, at max, a couple weeks worth of work for a competent developer - and most of them are built on precanned frameworks . There's nothing in these lights that's particularly complicated or innovative.

The lion's share of the cost is the LEDs themselves, and the drivers.

I think my post may have been misunderstood. The Added cost of the name-brand LEDs is the lion's share, the other extras just push the costs that much further. That's what I was saying. The price difference between an OSRAM and a Cheaper brand of LED at scale is something like 500% difference, even though there isn't a 500% difference in cost between the two models in question.

 

[Shooter6]

I wore them for a decade, never had foot issues and cleared up my lower back issues, I think most people's misconception is that they're normal shoes and you should walk normally in them. This is a completely false assumption. Heel-strike walking (what happens with regular shoes) is a hard habit to break, and walking that way in 5-Fingers is a quick way to having foot problems. I don't see how that would have caused an issue while sparring vs bare feet though, and bare feet are always better anyways when talking about foot health. Not to get too far off-topic though...

Unfortunately, being such old information, I cannot get you direct links of the Chinese Knock-Offs that used to exist, but this article " https://birthdayshoes.com/these-are...nd-other-pirated-black-market-five-toed-shoes " talks briefly about the "third-shift" and "grey-market" fakes that popped up around that time and some of the differences (often use of one lower design with a different upper design, or using a neoprene material for the upper, shinier bits, etc). When I used to wear Vibrams (for the 10-ish years from their launch until they became extremely difficult to find for a reasonable price), and includes some of the images. I had a bunch of images of the fakes alongside the real deal from the Vibram Product website. Some fakes were extremely convincing and not at all like the Pubu or Tommy Hifliger fakes from the years before. (Note: Fubu and Tommy Hilfiger intentionally misspelled as the Knock-Off items often were).

switching out the gauge of wire, and gauge of metal is definitely cost-effective, and while there is a small risk of cross-contamination, it's not really difficult to have a "3rd Shift" spool/supply and a "every-other-shift" spool/supply. Especially when the M/O is "Their" business during normal operating hours "Our" business outside of those hours. It ensures that the plants get shut down, cleaned out, and inspected between each of the 2 opposing business models.

I bet if the fake radion and real radion are placed side by side the wires ect are the same

 

[JNalley]

I bet if the fake radion and real radion are placed side by side the wires ect are the same

Possibly, I'm not saying that's definitely what's going on, and that it's a strict adherence among all knock-off manufacturers. It all depends on if it makes sense for how they're setup or not. But I can say that loads of knock-offs in the electronics space employ different gauge wiring, different capacitors, etc, all in the name of creating a lower-cost product. A quick Comparison between an Actual GoPro and a GoPro clone will show you.

Here are a few more articles on Ghost Shifting, not talking about Vibrams

The Secret World of “Ghost Shift” Midnight Manufacturing

The ship of Theseus, one of the oldest quandaries in Western philosophy, posits whether an object reconstructed with replaced parts can be considered the same as the original. But what if the ship is constructed with the same parts, in the exact same shipyard, only without the ship maker's knowledge

www.messynessychic.com

https://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1825&context=student_scholarship

 

[Bnichols124]

If you never ordered from China before you will be presently surprised how expensive a small order is to get into the USA.

 

[JNalley]

If you never ordered from China before you will be presently surprised how expensive a small order is to get into the USA.

As a consumer? or a corporation/business?

As a consumer, buying Chinese branded merchandise, it's ridiculously cheap to get small orders to the US.

As a corporation/business attempting to get your own brand into the country for sale in a retail space, it's definitely expensive for low-volume orders.

 

[Shooter6]

As a consumer? or a corporation/business?

As a consumer, buying Chinese branded merchandise, it's ridiculously cheap to get small orders to the US.

As a corporation/business attempting to get your own brand into the country for sale in a retail space, it's definitely expensive for low-volume orders.

I disagree. While there are products that are cheap to ship, most of the cost is spread out over a bunch of product.

There's locations here in the states that are connected to the Chinese sellers. They get a bunch of orders for a massive amount of different products. Once a shipping container is full they ship that to the location here, who break the order down and ship each item individually interstate.

The shipping container cost a few grand to ship.

Now if you buy stuff from some other companies, shipping is a lot more as they are shipping it as an individual item. Those normally ship via FedEx, DHL ect.

 

[Smite]

As a consumer? or a corporation/business?

As a consumer, buying Chinese branded merchandise, it's ridiculously cheap to get small orders to the US.

As a corporation/business attempting to get your own brand into the country for sale in a retail space, it's definitely expensive for low-volume orders.

Not when it comes to bars from herifi. 6 bars were a hair under $500, $200 of that was shipping. 40%

 

[oreo54]

115cm, "108W", $78.98, free shipping
Yep just wait till they dump 10,000 units in Los Angeles.

Led Aquarium Light 54w/81w/108w MIX Spectrum Strip Light for Tank Fish | eBay

PopularGrow LED Aquarium Lamp. Spectrum: 470nm,430nm,450nm,1000k. Leds View Angle: 120 Degree. Net Weight: 1.5kg/1.8kg/2.1kg. Led with CE/UL/RoHS Certification. No Risky Led Light. What You Get With PopularGrow LED.

www.ebay.com

I tried Alibaba and it's always a dumpster fire.
From sky high DHL to "better" rates but at the cost of your responsibility as soon as it's on the ship.
Shipping laws are a nightmare in themselves.

I applaude those that can handle it, I couldn't.
Even with all that yes it can be cheaper w/ "smallish" lots direct from China.

One ofs... go to ebay.

My favorite game is trying to get "samples"... all those would have gone DHL $$$.

As soon as you think you found a quality unit you find the actual price though cheaper isn't worth the risk.
Not to mention the language hassles or the incessant "we have a vendor that wants to talk to you"

Only pulled the trigger once on a lot of 2080 rail. Ordered just fine.
Never shipped because it turned out it ended up oversized so my shipping would have doubled.
Canceled order and was refunded.. Took awhile but no hassles

 

[oreo54]

Not when it comes to bars from herifi. 6 bars were a hair under $500, $200 of that was shipping. 40%

$117 each is "much" more expensive than my $79 free shipping example.
Of course I don't know your light size.

Now this isn't directed at you, just a general observation of the "human condition"
I have this coworker who buys a LOT from fleabay.
Complains when he buys something for pennies on the dollar in value and complains when they charge $10 for like an "envelope" size package. He knows what it err "should" cost to ship it since he also sells.
Of course that was the "old days" before ebay closed the "shipping" hole where your final value fee didn't include shipping.
Half the time you could just mentally reverse the cost.. i.e shipping is what you bought it for. Selling price was shipping.
A lot of electronics were going for literal pennies with say $10-20 shipping.

I shake my head every time.

Me, I just add the 2 and decide it's "value".

Bottom line is all that matters..

 

[telegraham]

I find the shipping discussion confusing. This bar, or a custom based on the same, will generally take less than 30 days to arrive. It's the 1150mm model. The two smaller bars, in stock spectrum, will arrive much quicker, as they're shipped from the US.

What I find interesting is that someone would order from Herifi when populargrow, a different OEM, is a great option. I suppose that could be due to limited lengths, and if so, please share that position.

If ordering custom, communicate directly with populargrow through AliExpress.

 

[Shooter6]

Not when it comes to bars from herifi. 6 bars were a hair under $500, $200 of that was shipping. 40%

Yes and they shipped direct to you? You didn't buy from an albinia seller? That's what I explained. The manufacturer I purchased my lights from ship direct from the factory to my house. The shipping is higher, compared to buying something off the Chinese Amazon,wish ect because the shipping is done in a different way then on those websites.

Is it the actual manufacturer shipping to you vs a secondary seller?

 

[Smite]

$117 each is "much" more expensive than my $79 free shipping example.
Of course I don't know your light size.

Now this isn't directed at you, just a general observation of the "human condition"
I have this coworker who buys a LOT from fleabay.
Complains when he buys something for pennies on the dollar in value and complains when they charge $10 for like an "envelope" size package. He knows what it err "should" cost to ship it since he also sells.
Of course that was the "old days" before ebay closed the "shipping" hole where your final value fee didn't include shipping.
Half the time you could just mentally reverse the cost.. i.e shipping is what you bought it for. Selling price was shipping.
A lot of electronics were going for literal pennies with say $10-20 shipping.

I shake my head every time.

Me, I just add the 2 and decide it's "value".

Bottom line is all that matters..

I hear ya. For me I was weighing QuantaPro vs ordering direct from Herifi. This was for the beefier housing and 120 degree lenses. 90/36" lights.
At first glance it appeared to be around 1/4 -1/3 of the cost and would be enough savings for me to role the dice but I changed my mind once it got closer to 50%.


Popular grow I've used in the past but I didn't care for the spread/blending. The herifi bars do offer a more options as far as spectrums go, have the beefier housing like the QP and 120 degree optics, which is why I got a quote direct from Herifi through alibaba.

In the end I ordered 2 QuantaPro OG Pop and am very happy with the bars. Extremely bright and have the spread, 2 bars 22" apart cover my 38" tank front to back, for pop.

 

[Shooter6]

I hear ya. For me I was weighing QuantaPro vs ordering direct from Herifi. This was for the beefier housing and 120 degree lenses. 90/36" lights.
At first glance it appeared to be around 1/4 -1/3 of the cost and would be enough savings for me to role the dice but I changed my mind once it got closer to 50%.


Popular grow I've used in the past but I didn't care for the spread/blending. The herifi bars do offer a more options as far as spectrums go, have the beefier housing like the QP and 120 degree optics, which is why I got a quote direct from Herifi through alibaba.

In the end I ordered 2 QuantaPro OG Pop and am very happy with the bars. Extremely bright and have the spread, 2 bars 22" apart cover my 38" tank front to back, for pop.

I dont know why my previous response is not here,.

If you look at my previous explanation, you are ordering the bars from a manufacturer with those bars , like the fixtures im using. Therefore they are shipping directly to you from their assembly line. They use DHL or FedEx. Via truck, air,then truck again.

When you order from poploom, evergrow ectvia Amazon, ebay or other internet site, they have shipped a shipping container full of product for a couple thousand dollars via shipping boat. Spred that couple grand across thousands of individual items and shipping is super cheap.

This is how reefbreeders works. They order a shipping container full of the evergrow lights that have been branded and packaged reefbreeders photon v2. Then they mark up the price and sell them here.
Other manufacturers do this same thing too. It appears radion g5 are the same deal as well.

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

I’ve got both Herifi and Orphek bars over my tank. Whilst they both do the job, the Orpheks are a far better light, both in terms of build quality and output. That’s not to say the Herifi aren’t any good, just not as good as the Orpheks.

 

[telegraham]

I’ve got both Herifi and Orphek bars over my tank. Whilst they both do the job, the Orpheks are a far better light, both in terms of build quality and output. That’s not to say the Herifi aren’t any good, just not as good as the Orpheks.

Have data to share? I'd be interested in your findings.

I have the Quantas and an OR2. Although they use different extrusions, build quality is nearly identical, with the only difference being the Orphek blacks out the glass covering the guts of the light. Regarding output, the OR3 is 8W less than the Quanta at the same spectrum.

 

[telegraham]

I dont know why my previous response is not here,.

If you look at my previous explanation, you are ordering the bars from a manufacturer with those bars , like the fixtures im using. Therefore they are shipping directly to you from their assembly line. They use DHL or FedEx. Via truck, air,then truck again.

When you order from poploom, evergrow ectvia Amazon, ebay or other internet site, they have shipped a shipping container full of product for a couple thousand dollars via shipping boat. Spred that couple grand across thousands of individual items and shipping is super cheap.

This is how reefbreeders works. They order a shipping container full of the evergrow lights that have been branded and packaged reefbreeders photon v2. Then they mark up the price and sell them here.
Other manufacturers do this same thing too. It appears radion g5 are the same deal as well.

I've watched Radions being built in Pennsylvania.

 

[sawdonkey]

Looking forward to seeing a vid

Four Herify bars all driven off one driver. Controlled via WiFi (the app is a little clunky). Each bar can do individual sunrise sunset. Here they are doing “cloud mode”….which I will never use. Looking forward to mounting these.