alibaba led bars vs high end led bars

[GARRIGA]

The way your post was worded, it sounded like you thought thought the name brand stuff was made in whatever country the company is based in, or that there's going to be a real difference in the product ( since both are made in the same production line) or that you believe China stole the design from the name brand companies.

You can't claim theft if you sent them the build plans, only breech of contract.

If those name brand companies don't want their stuff copied then they should keep the manufacturing in house.

As a final example, jebao came out with the slw pump after producing a similar one for reefbreeders. It worked so well that aqua illumination bought a version and is selling them as the nero with a higher price tag lol.
The days of crappy production from China died when greedy companies exported manufacturing over to there on mass!

You misinterpreted what I said.

 

[Shooter6]

You misinterpreted what I said.

Exactly. And that was why I clarified that facts.

 

[Lousybreed]

Yea high dc voltage and high amps is problematic.

https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/HLG-600H/HLG-600H-SPEC.PDF

Newest "AB" types are very flexible.
Splitting the bars so V(f) is reasonable (50V-ish)and you can run say 11 (1A/2/bar) off a HLG-600-54
Orphek does w/ their larger ones, splitting about 1A over the bar or so (from memory)

Of course that is a $200 driver..


Inventronic's voltage/amp ranges are sig. different from Meanwell.
Buildmyled used to use them.
and last I looked they actually had models close to "black box" spec-ed drivers.
Side note..

EUD-600S980DT Inventronics Constant Current Programmable LED Driver - 600W 9800mA Dimmable

The EUD-600S980DT is a 600W, 9800 mA programmable constant-current LED driver from Inventronics

ballastshop.com

Historically hard to find @ retail..

I hear you, there are options out there but at $200 for the driver alone that would price me out of the market.

 

[fishmonkey]

The way your post was worded, it sounded like you thought thought the name brand stuff was made in whatever country the company is based in, or that there's going to be a real difference in the product ( since both are made in the same production line) or that you believe China stole the design from the name brand companies.

You can't claim theft if you sent them the build plans, only breech of contract.

If those name brand companies don't want their stuff copied then they should keep the manufacturing in house.

As a final example, jebao came out with the slw pump after producing a similar one for reefbreeders. It worked so well that aqua illumination bought a version and is selling them as the nero with a higher price tag lol.
The days of crappy production from China died when greedy companies exported manufacturing over to there on mass!

Would be great if America would be manufacturing like China is.

China=great products at a reasonable price. Good for them! With that mindset they will have world hegemony in no time

 

[Shooter6]

Would be great if America would be manufacturing like China is.

China=great products at a reasonable price. Good for them! With that mindset they will have world hegemony in no time

Exactly what's occurring. China has not become a super power over the past thirty years by producing junk, or importing products. Instead they refined their manufacturing abilities, and imported manufacturing jobs. They also do it cheaper due to far less government restrictions such as the epa.

Labor is cheaper there as well.

But china's manufacturing has become the largest in the world. Everything from cheap cat litter, to the computer chips on the most advanced War equipment in the western worlds military.

Dismissing china's production capabilities is not smart. Especially when just about everything within your veiw right now has Chinese production involved in it.

 

[Bpb]

Exactly what's occurring. China has not become a super power over the past thirty years by producing junk, or importing products. Instead they refined their manufacturing abilities, and imported manufacturing jobs. They also do it cheaper due to far less government restrictions such as the epa.

Labor is cheaper there as well.

But china's manufacturing has become the largest in the world. Everything from cheap cat litter, to the computer chips on the most advanced War equipment in the western worlds military.

Dismissing china's production capabilities is not smart. Especially when just about everything within your veiw right now has Chinese production involved in it.

To quote a polarizing comedian regarding China, “they’re not winning, they’ve won”

 

[Hooz]

Luxdium and I are working together on future things. I love the innovation he is bringing to puck lighting. Great lights compliment each other.

I'M IN!

 

[Shooter6]

I'M IN!

Time to move away from pucks haha

 

[minus9]

Time to move away from pucks haha

Actually, someone needs to incorporate both in order to create spread with contrast, which none of the current LEDs possess. It’s either one or the other, which has been my big complaint all along. Innovate away my friend!

 

[Hooz]

Time to move away from pucks haha

I have all Lux pucks now, but I'm upgrading tanks soon and need some fill light.

 

[Shooter6]

Actually, someone needs to incorporate both in order to create spread with contrast, which none of the current LEDs possess. It’s either one or the other, which has been my big complaint all along. Innovate away my friend!

What do you mean by contrast? That would be lacking without pucks?

 

[minus9]

What do you mean by contrast? That would be lacking without pucks?

Exactly, but no one has designed a light that incorporates the panel and puck style together. Either they try to copy T5 or halides, but not that combo.

 

[Shooter6]

Exactly, but no one has designed a light that incorporates the panel and puck style together. Either they try to copy T5 or halides, but not that combo.

Actually someone did, not quite a full panel but if you look up the zetlight mccraven 2 it had 2 square white led pads. Maybe 2"×2" and a bunch of different led colors spread around the fixture. I can take a picture of one if needed.

I still don't understand what benefits your getting from the puck vs the panel design. Can you please explain?

 

[Shooter6]

Exactly, but no one has designed a light that incorporates the panel and puck style together. Either they try to copy T5 or halides, but not that combo.

Zetlight 6600 for sale!

amazing light.. sold tank no use for this anymore 950 dollar light about 3mo old asking 600.00 Full spectrum storm mode cloud mode comes with remote and original box and parts. Pic is my tank with this light along with some specs. you can google zetlight6600 will take you to website. SICK...

www.reef2reef.com

This link you can see what I'm talking about.
It's not the mccraven2 rather the 6600a. It made a real nice t5 look when I ran them.

 

[fishmonkey]

Actually someone did, not quite a full panel but if you look up the zetlight mccraven 2 it had 2 square white led pads. Maybe 2"×2" and a bunch of different led colors spread around the fixture. I can take a picture of one if needed.

I still don't understand what benefits your getting from the puck vs the panel design. Can you please explain?

I’m guessing he’s talking about less shadowing = less contrast

 

[minus9]

Actually someone did, not quite a full panel but if you look up the zetlight mccraven 2 it had 2 square white led pads. Maybe 2"×2" and a bunch of different led colors spread around the fixture. I can take a picture of one if needed.

I still don't understand what benefits your getting from the puck vs the panel design. Can you please explain?

The puck or cluster provides the shimmer and contrast and the panel provides blanket light, just like T5/halide combo. To me T5’s on their own give a 2D look or flat look, which is unnatural, but combine them with halides and you get the punch, shimmer and full spectrum. The only LED that provides that shimmer is Kessil (and the SmatFarm G5) but it lacks the coverage of the panel style LEDs and the panel style lacks the shimmer, so you get one or the other and not both. It would be nice if you can have it all in one fixture and dial in the amount of shimmer to your personal preference or vice versa. Contrast provides depth, so in our tiny glass boxes, the more we can provide, the more natural it will look (to me). None of the current panel LED lights have any shimmer, maybe the Straton has some, but I haven’t seen that fixture in person yet. Again, this is a personal preference and I’m not saying anything negative about panel LEDs or T5’s. But when I see posts about LED innovation, I feel like there hasn’t been much in the way of capturing the gold standard of reef lighting. It seems like the focus is on one or the other. I understand that some hobbyists don’t like shimmer or contrast, but I have to question whether they have been to an actual reef or not? Essentially, I want contrast and coverage with no disco ball.

 

[JNalley]

Just going to leave some food for thought here.

I don't know if anyone remembers the Vibram FiveFingers shoes, they're still around but not as popular as they once were. However, you used to see other companies (mainly Chinese) jumping on the bandwagon. It turns out, what was happening is probably similar to what is happening here.

Vibram only ran their factory in China 8 hours a day, during the other 16 hours, the manufacturing plant would keep the molds, but switch out the plastics and the cloths to make identical, but more economical shoes.

Translate that scenario to this one:

The Chinese LED bars are likely using the same machinery to manufacture the bars, but they're likely skimping in a few key areas:

Aluminum thickness (possible)
LED Chips (5w vs 3w also CREE/OSRAM vs Chinese LED Manufacturers)
Wiring (Probably smaller gauge and different insulation).

All to create similar, but far more economical units. Take a look at a bulk supply of OSRAM and CREE LEDs and run the math. The margins on the higher-end lights are not super huge (especially when you start tossing in things like Wifi, multiple channel controllability, software development, etc).

If you want to pay for inferior lights, just know that you're paying for inferior lights. Not that they don't work, or that they can't create a subjectively decent light, but they will not have the same components nor the quality control systems in place to ensure you're getting the most from the light.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Shooter6]

I’m guessing he’s talking about less shadowing = less contrast

I've seen bars added to g4 radions and that was to fill in the shadowing. If that's the goal wouldn't that make the puck pointless?

 

[Shooter6]

The puck or cluster provides the shimmer and contrast and the panel provides blanket light, just like T5/halide combo. To me T5’s on their own give a 2D look or flat look, which is unnatural, but combine them with halides and you get the punch, shimmer and full spectrum. The only LED that provides that shimmer is Kessil (and the SmatFarm G5) but it lacks the coverage of the panel style LEDs and the panel style lacks the shimmer, so you get one or the other and not both. It would be nice if you can have it all in one fixture and dial in the amount of shimmer to your personal preference or vice versa. Contrast provides depth, so in our tiny glass boxes, the more we can provide, the more natural it will look (to me). None of the current panel LED lights have any shimmer, maybe the Straton has some, but I haven’t seen that fixture in person yet. Again, this is a personal preference and I’m not saying anything negative about panel LEDs or T5’s. But when I see posts about LED innovation, I feel like there hasn’t been much in the way of capturing the gold standard of reef lighting. It seems like the focus is on one or the other. I understand that some hobbyists don’t like shimmer or contrast, but I have to question whether they have been to an actual reef or not? Essentially, I want contrast and coverage with no disco ball.

Check this out. Not the intense kessil shimmer but definitely shimmer! As a side note im in conversation with the manufacturer about bringing a large panel light to the reef hobby.

 

[Shooter6]

Just going to leave some food for thought here.

I don't know if anyone remembers the Vibram FiveFingers shoes, they're still around but not as popular as they once were. However, you used to see other companies (mainly Chinese) jumping on the bandwagon. It turns out, what was happening is probably similar to what is happening here.

Vibram only ran their factory in China 8 hours a day, during the other 16 hours, the manufacturing plant would keep the molds, but switch out the plastics and the cloths to make identical, but more economical shoes.

Translate that scenario to this one:

The Chinese LED bars are likely using the same machinery to manufacture the bars, but they're likely skimping in a few key areas:

Aluminum thickness (possible)
LED Chips (5w vs 3w also CREE/OSRAM vs Chinese LED Manufacturers)
Wiring (Probably smaller gauge and different insulation).

All to create similar, but far more economical units. Take a look at a bulk supply of OSRAM and CREE LEDs and run the math. The margins on the higher-end lights are not super huge (especially when you start tossing in things like Wifi, multiple channel controllability, software development, etc).

If you want to pay for inferior lights, just know that you're paying for inferior lights. Not that they don't work, or that they can't create a subjectively decent light, but they will not have the same components nor the quality control systems in place to ensure you're getting the most from the light.

Just my 2 cents...

The reason the 5 finger shoes went away is they were causing foot issues. We used them for sparring and soon found out they were worse then just being bare foot. .

Also another point switching out wiring, metal thicknesses ect is not cost effective, or likely to happen due to the high risk of the items getting mixed together due to shift changes.

Do you have any links to credible info on that vibram molds swap thing you layer out? I never seen true copies of those only similar designs, most with the 2 smallest digits connected into a single toe.