alibaba led bars vs high end led bars

[telegraham]

380nm will burn the plastic lenses or the clear plastic shield.

385nm has not burnt the clear covering of my Mitras, and the UV passes through.

 

[Shooter6]

In my opinion the degrega

Yes, seems the plastic used in "some" ai's have a tendency to brown.
Black boxes are known for this too.

The photon flux in an led is really intense and the higher the energy levels blues/ violets compounds the issue.
Technically it is usually impurities in there plastics moreso than the plastic polymer that brown and of course now offer an absorption " target" to concentrate energy even more.
Next diodes can get hot enough to simply melt them.
There are papers explaining this including that some browning is actually reversible.
BUT just need to deal with reality atm.
Worst case is the on chip lens browning.
There are lists of chemicals that are a no no near a diode. If the silicone lens on the chip browns it is more than likely it used rhe wrong adhesives or is contaminated with something from the list.

Secondary lenses can be replaced.

Think Orphek now lists using glass over uv diodes.
Want to complicate the problem...many plastics don' t pass uv anyways.
The " exact" wavelength cutoff varies by type and thickness.

Its ALL complicated really.

Back to the ai' s ...an "issue" can only be defined by percentages
Certainly greater than 0.
I'd suspect that after 10 years ( and the diodes are still at like 70%) it might hit 100%

Your guess is as good as

In my opinion after 5 years the degradation of any led diode is going to be enough the entire fixture will need replaced.

The burnt lenses has only been witnessed by me with the 380 and lower nm. As I said I have no personal experience with ai prime so only repeated what I've been told and read.

I guess this is a win for mh lol.
I also believe that the or3 and possibly the orphek icon use a glass shield as well.

 

[Shooter6]

385nm has not burnt the clear covering of my Mitras, and the UV passes through.

I understand, I have seen it happen. Fixture was 3 years old and it wasn't the led lense but it was the plastic protective sheet .

I'll type this in bold so there's no misunderstanding
I SAW A COUPLE 3 YEAR OLD FIXTURES THAT HAD 360-380 DIODES AND ONLY THOSE DIODES HAD BURNT THE PROTECTIVE COVER NOT THE 120 DEGREE LENSES.

 

[oreo54]

In my opinion after 5 years the degradation of any led diode is going to be enough the entire fixture will need replaced.

burnt lenses has only been witnessed by me with the 380 and lower nm. As I said I have no personal experience with ai prime so only repeated what I've been told and read.

I guess this is a win for mh lol.
I also believe that the or3 and possibly the orphek icon use a glass shield as well.

$35 a " bulb"
.

2 pcs LED-Boards for Mitras LX 72xx – GHL USA

www.aquariumcomputer.com

 

[GARRIGA]

Ul listed is a paid by manufacturer "certification " if you look up ul certification on here or Google you will be amazed by just how little that really means!

Then let me put it this way. I trust the well being of my family best with that not made in China where the manufacturer is too cheap to pay for this supposedly useless listing that apparently every builder of electrical components tends to bother wasting time and money procuring. If they are that cheap then where else are they cutting corners?

To each there own. Buy what makes you comfortable. I'll over spend so I can sleep better at night. Not a cheap hobby. Knew that getting into it 40 years ago. Not going to go cheap now that I'm older and wiser and more able to afford it.

 

[GARRIGA]

Check that data. Generally, you'll find the power supplies for Kessil, Ecotech, and the Sky (same as Ecotech) to be UL, but not the fixtures. The power supply drivers' OEM directly paid for UL, not the fixture manufacturers. The lack of UL is noted by BRS as a marketing tool.

Power supply is what mostly concerns me. Considering it is what drives the fixture and most likely to overheat, if faulty. I'd expect that companies like Kessil and EcoTech would also have better quality control measures then that made at the lowest dollar in China with no outside manufacturer to overseas operations and quality control. My issues isn't necessarily with made in China. Most everything is but I expect better quality from Apple than some no name selling at cutthroat prices on Amazon or eBay.

BTW, regardless if BRS is just using it as marketing or not. Been around long enough to do my own research vs be foolish and puppet-ed by marketing BS.

 

[telegraham]

I understand, I have seen it happen. Fixture was 3 years old and it wasn't the led lense but it was the plastic protective sheet .

I'll type this in bold so there's no misunderstanding
I SAW A COUPLE 3 YEAR OLD FIXTURES THAT HAD 360-380 DIODES AND ONLY THOSE DIODES HAD BURNT THE PROTECTIVE COVER NOT THE 120 DEGREE LENSES.

What fixture?

 

[telegraham]

I'd expect that companies like Kessil and EcoTech would also have better quality control measures then that made at the lowest dollar in China with no outside manufacturer to overseas operations and quality control.

I totally get what you're saying, but that's Meanwell's QC and their CE/UL. Fixture manufacturers could go cheap, and some recognizable brands do, but others do it better.

 

[telegraham]

Nice! I would like to see that, what mix of bars are you planning?

I've thrown that question Luca's way. I like the mix of the Mitras, with the schedule I'm running, and the AliE bars' 470nm. I'll shoot him a spectrum and see what he recommends.

 

[Lousybreed]

I contacted that factory about getting a combo of bars to build my own panel but the $200 in shipping had me wondering if it's worth the gamble. Also not too big of a fan of sending $500 straight over to China and waiting for who knows how long for it to arrive here in the states. Seems like they have a decent reputation though.

I'm now considering the Quanta bars. I know some claim they are the same as well but they look very nice and aren't all that expensive. The more I look at them the more they seem to be different with diode counts, colors ect. Really it looks like the housing is just the same. Also 5w vs 3w I believe. I think they are both under driven, it's about saving heat since it's passively cooled from what I understand.
I'm waiting to see some more reviews on them before making my final decision but they look promising, specially with the 120 degree optics.

I could save about 50% after shipping is what mine came to. Orphek vs Alibaba I'd probably take the gamble on Herifi bars as they look really similar. Quanta I think is going to have an edge on both.

Data matters

 

[Lousybreed]

Those Quanta's look good, wish I saw them before ordering the Orpheks but they probably don't ship to Africa

I can ship world wide!

 

[Shooter6]

$35 a " bulb"
.

2 pcs LED-Boards for Mitras LX 72xx – GHL USA

www.aquariumcomputer.com

If only the bulb is needed, as that's quite a long time for the circuit boards as well. And who knows if those "bulbs" will still be available in 5 years. No other source for them other then the manufacturer unlike mh bulbs. The mh comment was a jk aimed at oreo by the way due to the 100 page back and forth we were involved in the other day that was shut down.

 

[GARRIGA]

I totally get what you're saying, but that's Meanwell's QC and their CE/UL. Fixture manufacturers could go cheap, and some recognizable brands do, but others do it better.

It's up to the consumer to research those that don't cut corners. When that's not possible then I just assume they have. Just not worth the potential risk to save a few dollars. Why a company's reputation is more valuable than the it's own products. I trust Kessil. I hope I can trust EcoTech, still researching that. I don't trust anything coming out of China not distributed here with someone reputable backing it. I could be wrong but the alternative is worse.

 

[Shooter6]

It's up to the consumer to research those that don't cut corners. When that's not possible then I just assume they have. Just not worth the potential risk to save a few dollars. Why a company's reputation is more valuable than the it's own products. I trust Kessil. I hope I can trust EcoTech, still researching that. I don't trust anything coming out of China not distributed here with someone reputable backing it. I could be wrong but the alternative is worse.

You may be surprised as to what all actually is coming out of China but has trusted names.

These Chinese copies of name brand products are not being done by them ordering the real product and copying it. Instead name brand companies are sending their designs to Chinese factories to make the biggest profit at the lowest production cost. Those Chinese factories get tasked wit filling a monthly order for 10k units as an example. They reach that, then up production to 25k units per month. Selling those units through Chinese sellers.on Albania ect for more then the name brand company pays per unit but still cheaper then the retail of the name brand.

 

[GARRIGA]

You may be surprised as to what all actually is coming out of China but has trusted names.

These Chinese copies of name brand products are not being done by them ordering the real product and copying it. Instead name brand companies are sending their designs to Chinese factories to make the biggest profit at the lowest production cost. Those Chinese factories get tasked wit filling a monthly order for 10k units as an example. They reach that, then up production to 25k units per month. Selling those units through Chinese sellers.on Albania ect for more then the name brand company pays per unit but still cheaper then the retail of the name brand.

Might want to reread what I wrote. I've mentioned most everything built in China. Just prefer that operated and quality control by a reputable name.

 

[Lousybreed]

If you want an LED that replicates MH, keep your eye on Luxdium. He's developing a replacement puck for the Prime HD and Hydra 26HD/52HD that mimics a MH closer than anyone has attempted to get yet. It's impressive.

As for the Quanta Pro bars, I'm completely sold on them. Yes, they are built by the same Chinese manufacturer that builds all the others, but Luca has really dialed in the spectrum and spread/blending better than anyone else has in an LED bar (and the manufacturer will only build them like that for him, nobody else). My ONLY, and I mean ONLY nitpick is that there is no ability to control or dim them. I'm an LPS and softie guy, so I don't need a ton of PAR, but I do need spectrum and spread. If I could put multiple bars on a tank and them turn them down to what I need, I would jump in with both feet yesterday.

Luxdium and I are working together on future things. I love the innovation he is bringing to puck lighting. Great lights compliment each other.

 

[Lousybreed]

You may be surprised as to what all actually is coming out of China but has trusted names.

These Chinese copies of name brand products are not being done by them ordering the real product and copying it. Instead name brand companies are sending their designs to Chinese factories to make the biggest profit at the lowest production cost. Those Chinese factories get tasked wit filling a monthly order for 10k units as an example. They reach that, then up production to 25k units per month. Selling those units through Chinese sellers.on Albania ect for more then the name brand company pays per unit but still cheaper then the retail of the name brand.

This is true for some major players in the game.

 

[Lousybreed]

Yes, marine led light bar functionality is lame. The horticulture industry has bars like this and have all the hardware to mount them together,for daisy chains, and also have the power source mounted up top to avoid all those cords and it all comes with the whole fixture.
The power sources even have at least a dial to control and dim.

If your going to sell bars to replace T5 than at least have all the wiring taken care of in a junction box with a cord or two going to the power source.

I know Reefbrite has some mounts for their bars but they charge out the wazoo instead of it being hardware that comes in the box.

Big E, there is a big difference between horticulture and reef lights. First of all for every reef light sold I bet there is 1,000 horti lights sold. So very different scale. Then there is the whole saltwater ant getting electrocuted thing. My regular bars are in fact waterproof so I am not concerned. But the higher powered light bars are tough to daisy chain due to the high amperage. For drivers max out around 220 watts, so finding a big enough driver gets tricky. If you have noticed all high powered lights (Ecotech, sky, kessil, etc) are all low power DC due to it being impossible to make them perfectly waterproof.

with that being said I am working these issues for cord management and looking at it from every angle.

 

[oreo54]

For drivers max out around 220 watts

Yea high dc voltage and high amps is problematic.

https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/HLG-600H/HLG-600H-SPEC.PDF

Newest "AB" types are very flexible.
Splitting the bars so V(f) is reasonable (50V-ish)and you can run say 11 (1A/2/bar) off a HLG-600-54
Orphek does w/ their larger ones, splitting about 1A over the bar or so (from memory)

Of course that is a $200 driver..


Inventronic's voltage/amp ranges are sig. different from Meanwell.
Buildmyled used to use them.
and last I looked they actually had models close to "black box" spec-ed drivers.
Side note..

EUD-600S980DT Inventronics Constant Current Programmable LED Driver - 600W 9800mA Dimmable

The EUD-600S980DT is a 600W, 9800 mA programmable constant-current LED driver from Inventronics

ballastshop.com

Max Output Current: 9800mA
Max Output Voltage: 76V
Output Voltage Range 31-76V

Historically hard to find @ retail..

 

[Shooter6]

Might want to reread what I wrote. I've mentioned most everything built in China. Just prefer that operated and quality control by a reputable name.

The way your post was worded, it sounded like you thought thought the name brand stuff was made in whatever country the company is based in, or that there's going to be a real difference in the product ( since both are made in the same production line) or that you believe China stole the design from the name brand companies.

You can't claim theft if you sent them the build plans, only breech of contract.

If those name brand companies don't want their stuff copied then they should keep the manufacturing in house.

As a final example, jebao came out with the slw pump after producing a similar one for reefbreeders. It worked so well that aqua illumination bought a version and is selling them as the nero with a higher price tag lol.
The days of crappy production from China died when greedy companies exported manufacturing over to there on mass!