All For Reef Dosing Questions

[twentyleagues]

sorry @twentyleagues but did you read my post? It's only been 2 week since starting AFR and clearly in AFR instructions on all the sites says it tells you to adjust add alk/calcium till stable and or increase/decrease afr till stability is reached, which is what I have done...... it is my magnesium that isn't stable anyway..... I have to dose that extra daily on top of afr just to keep it above 1300....

Im not going to bold this like you did.
Did you read my post? I was addressing what @rishma said to you. I did not touch on the mag at all but I guess I could now. Home test kits are iffy at best with accuracy for mag and calcium. This could be test error you are seeing. If you would like to address the directions it actually says get your levels to where you want them BEFORE you start AFR and then IF needed adjust accordingly with 2 part. I have 3 tanks using afr currently 1 is mine two others at other peoples houses that I helped them set up when they got interested by seeing mine. I have seen no unbalanced numbers where calcium or mag is way out of whack. But again calc and mag test results can be erratic or easily thrown off. I test mine and their water for these elements every 6-8 weeks and if its far out I dont do a thing corals are growing and look healthy. Keep an eye on alk and everything else will fall in place. This is what @rishma was trying to tell you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

sorry @twentyleagues but did you read my post? It's only been 2 week since starting AFR and clearly in AFR instructions on all the sites says it tells you to adjust add alk/calcium till stable and or increase/decrease afr till stability is reached, which is what I have done/doing..... it is my magnesium that isn't stable anyway..... I have to dose that extra daily on top of afr just to keep it above 1300....

Slow down. Folks here know as much as anything you are reading. It cannot be the case that alk rose too much and calcium fell. That reflects a testing issue, not an AFR attribute.

I DO NOT recommend dosing or adjusting AFR based on calcium. It moves too slowly to be a good choice. You are just seeing test error or a salinity drop if it seems to decline.

Dose it to maintain alk 24 h after dosing, and basically ignore calcium for weeks. It will follow along just fine, perhaps with a slight rise as folks note.

 

[Alex Dragon]

Im not going to bold this like you did.
Did you read my post? I was addressing what @rishma said to you. I did not touch on the mag at all but I guess I could now. Home test kits are iffy at best with accuracy for mag and calcium. This could be test error you are seeing. If you would like to address the directions it actually says get your levels to where you want them BEFORE you start AFR and then IF needed adjust accordingly with 2 part. I have 3 tanks using afr currently 1 is mine two others at other peoples houses that I helped them set up when they got interested by seeing mine. I have seen no unbalanced numbers where calcium or mag is way out of whack. But again calc and mag test results can be erratic or easily thrown off. I test mine and their water for these elements every 6-8 weeks and if its far out I dont do a thing corals are growing and look healthy. Keep an eye on alk and everything else will fall in place. This is what @rishma was trying to tell you.

Neither of you read properly or misunderstood the post then, its not to do with alk calcium i was referring to using additional magnesium, and have indeed done what I needed to get the alk/calcium to stabilise, I dosed small amounts of alk calcium only to tweak to get the balance and stabalise which I will continue to monitor over the coming days weeks months, I didn't forsee completely how my magnesium has to be topped up so much daily that's the only one I have to check daily as it drops to 1300 or lower if I don't dose it daily on top of AFR

 

[Alex Dragon]

Slow down. Folks here know as much as anything you are reading. It cannot be the case that alk rose too much and calcium fell. That reflects a testing issue, not an AFR attribute.

I DO NOT recommend dosing or adjusting AFR based on calcium. It moves too slowly to be a good choice. You are just seeing test error or a salinity drop if it seems to decline.

Dose it to maintain alk 24 h after dosing, and basically ignore calcium for weeks. It will follow along just fine, perhaps with a slight rise as folks note.

I give up I clearly am not explaining this properly... i am not having issues with alk calcium...... its the magnesium consumption I am having issues with having to dose daily to compensate.......

 

[twentyleagues]

Neither of you read properly or misunderstood the post then, its not to do with alk calcium i was referring to using additional magnesium, and have indeed done what I needed to get the alk/calcium to stabilise, I dosed small amounts of alk calcium only to tweak to get the balance and stabalise which I will continue to monitor over the coming days weeks months, I didn't forsee completely how my magnesium has to be topped up so much daily that's the only one I have to check daily as it drops to 1300 or lower if I don't dose it daily on top of AFR

No we did not. You are not grasping what we are saying. Its folly to worry about mag or calcium when dosing afr. I dont know how else to say it. If you read the directions it says set your levels and then start afr if you did this and nothing else testing alk and dosing according to alk levels you will be fine for a long time. You could eventually see an increase in calcium though depending on water changes and salt mix used. Dont hyper fixate on calc and mag you will be fine.

 

[Alex Dragon]

Oh and I have been keeping reef tanks on and off over 30 years and my daughter even went to university and got her degree in marine biology, the old school way was constant 10-15% water changes weekly and didn't even test everything back then, I am doing all this to reduce having to do weekly water changes to monthly or even not at all by newer modern methods and testing along with dosing

 

[twentyleagues]

I give up I clearly am not explaining this properly... i am not having issues with alk calcium...... its the magnesium consumption I am having issues with having to dose daily to compensate.......

You are not listening to what is being said mag tests are inaccurate, poor results, not correct, stop worrying about your mag level.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi, I am currently dialing in my 300ltr+ mixed reef with AFR went to recommend dose and got too much alk and not enough calcium so dosed calcium and reduced dose to 14.5ml which seems to have settled after 10days at 8.8alk and around 430 calc,

You wrote those exact words above. That is exactly what I was responding to.

I suggest we move on, but since you are new here, you should note that the people responding to you are very experienced aquarists who fully understand the issues around AFR.

 

[Alex Dragon]

No we did not. You are not grasping what we are saying. Its folly to worry about mag or calcium when dosing afr. I dont know how else to say it. If you read the directions it says set your levels and then start afr if you did this and nothing else testing alk and dosing according to alk levels you will be fine for a long time. You could eventually see an increase in calcium though depending on water changes and salt mix used. Dont hyper fixate on calc and mag you will be fine.

Magnesium is important to some corals so yes i need to keep it in check as a couple of my corals was dying off through what people and research i read possibly due to the lack of or reduced Magnesium level..... my alk has never dropped below 8 and my calcium has never dropped below 400... but my magnesium has been as low as 1100 before I realised that was mainly with doing water changes... with salt that target 1350
And also AFR does state that you can use both alk and calcium even Lou says that

 

[Alex Dragon]

You wrote those exact words above. That is exactly what I was responding to.

I suggest we move on, but since you are new here, you should note that the people responding to you are very experienced aquarists who fully understand the issues around AFR.

I have 30 years experienced in reef tanks just not using AFR

 

[Alex Dragon]

You wrote those exact words above. That is exactly what I was responding to.

I suggest we move on, but since you are new here, you should note that the people responding to you are very experienced aquarists who fully understand the issues around AFR.

It says on my post its been stable after doing adjustments

 

[twentyleagues]

I have 30 years experienced in reef tanks just not using AFR

Randy is a chemist. I would listen to what he says when it comes to testing or anything to do with chemistry.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Magnesium is important to some corals so yes i need to keep it in check as a couple of my corals was dying off through what people and research i read possibly due to the lack of or reduced Magnesium level..... my alk has never dropped below 8 and my calcium has never dropped below 400... but my magnesium has been as low as 1100 before I realised that was mainly with doing water changes... with salt that target 1350
And also AFR does state that you can use both alk and calcium even Lou says that

Yes, and I disagree with Lou. It happens.

I also have a different take on when and how to dose magnesium based on testing issues:

Just say NO to magnesium testing: RMM is born

OK, this thread has been many years in the making, and I'm posting it here since folks in the chem forum are probably already tired of all the threads relating to problematic magnesium testing. I'm going to propose a method, let's call it the Randy Magnesium Method, or RMM for short. All good...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[twentyleagues]

Magnesium is important to some corals so yes i need to keep it in check as a couple of my corals was dying off through what people and research i read possibly due to the lack of or reduced Magnesium level..... my alk has never dropped below 8 and my calcium has never dropped below 400... but my magnesium has been as low as 1100 before I realised that was mainly with doing water changes... with salt that target 1350
And also AFR does state that you can use both alk and calcium even Lou says that

That is highly debatable and probably was not mag. But yes mag is important.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It says on my post its been stable after doing adjustments

Yes, and I stated very clearly as an expert chemist, that the changes you observed were not from AFR, but likely from test issues. Your correction may have done nothing useful.

 

[Alex Dragon]

That is highly debatable and probably was not mag. But yes mag is important.

Well i have been dosing magnesium and the corals affected are coming back , I was dosing 10ml + magnesium before deciding to do AFR and keeping my alk calcium up with combined water changes and single dosing solutions or other forms of so called all in ones and that was the reason for trying AFR to get out reduce of having to do all separate dosing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well i have been dosing magnesium and the corals affected are coming back , I was dosing 10ml + magnesium before deciding to do AFR and keeping my alk calcium up with combined water changes and single dosing solutions or other forms of so called all in ones and that was the reason for trying AFR to get out reduce of having to do all separate dosing

It may (or may not) have gotten low over a very long time of not using any. RMM does not say ignore mag, it says dose it based on the amount of calcium dosed, rather than testing. :)

 

[Alex Dragon]

It may (or may not) have gotten low over a very long time of not using any. RMM does not say ignore mag, it says dose it based on the amount of calcium dosed, rather than testing. :)

So can you tell me how much magnesium i need to use then off the 14.5ml daily dose of AFR to keep it at a safe level? Without doing some home testing?

 

[Troylee]

Magnesium is important to some corals so yes i need to keep it in check as a couple of my corals was dying off through what people and research i read possibly due to the lack of or reduced Magnesium level..... my alk has never dropped below 8 and my calcium has never dropped below 400... but my magnesium has been as low as 1100 before I realised that was mainly with doing water changes... with salt that target 1350
And also AFR does state that you can use both alk and calcium even Lou says that

Nothing wrong with mag at 1100.. my tank runs there and it’s a full blown sps reef lol..

 

[rtparty]

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything positive long term from less or no water changes. Very few who do no water changes document everything. Many don’t admit they are an above average reefer and their method does not and should not apply to the vast majority of hobbyists