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What is your opinion on iodine concentration in Tropic Marin All-For-Reef?

  • Iodine concentration in All-For-Reef could be higher

    Votes: 67 80.7%
  • Iodine concentration in All-For-Reef is exactly right

    Votes: 15 18.1%
  • Iodine concentration in All-For-Reef is rather on the high side

    Votes: 1 1.2%

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    83

Superlightman

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You can add additional K+ and A- Elements to All-For-Reef.

For adding iodine I recommend to add A- Elements only.

Our salts contain good levels of rubidium. Neither ICP-OES analysis of the well known laboratories nor test kits test for rubidium. Do you have numbers at which levels dosing rubidium should make sense?

Rubidium is an alkaline metal element, like lithium, sodium and potassium, and a strong and rapid depletion of these monovalent ions is very unlikely.
In the new all for reef you increased both A and K?
My goal now with all for reef is to limit the water change to the minimum and add the elements that are missing after regular icp tests.I will see how this works.
I know oceamo and coralvue test rubidium.
In the moonshiner method, for example, they write this about rubidium:
''Rubidium is usually always going nearly depletion levels in normal tanks, since it is a costly element and barely included in most supplements and Salt mixes.
The initial dosage is 0.2mg/L and then 0.1mg/L quarterly or 0.033mg/L on a monthly basis.
I have intentionally overdosed Rubidium to 0.7mg/L with no adverse and no better results, and hence, I recommend at least to maintain natural seawater level ranges to avoid low levels or depletion. It is safe to assume that Rubidium can be supplemented even while not part of the ATI ICP results and tests. Coralvue ICP test would be sufficient to test for it, if desired like once a year in addition to the ATI ICP.''
''Usually if not supplemented in any way, this element is always depleted over time but apparently very valuable to maintain at least natural seawater levels of 0.2mg/L''
 

Superlightman

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Here is also an interesting thread about it:
 
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Hans-Werner

Hans-Werner

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In the new all for reef you increased both A and K?
No, only the A- Elements. Nevertheless you can increase the K+ Elements if you want. In trace elements there is no single "best for all" concentration. Also in reef waters trace metal concentrations will vary, depending from input from underwater rock, runoff from land and input from air (dust, volcanic ashes, gases). This may also influence which corals are growing best in a specific reef.

Your "best" trace metal concentration may also vary depending from the other nutrients like nitrate and phosphate and the effect you want to achieve.

Rubidium is usually always going nearly depletion levels in normal tanks, since it is a costly element and barely included in most supplements and Salt mixes.
At 35 PSU salinity our salts have 34 µg/l or ppb rubidium added, which is 0.034 mg/l or ppm. Even if rubidium is severely depleted, which I doubt will ever happen, you would add 3.4 ppb or 0.0034 ppm with a 10 % water change with one of our Tropic Marin salt mixes.

Rubidium is next related to potassium. You get potassium concentrations with ICP-OES or with our Tropic Marin K+ Pro test. Potassium seems to drop very slowly and seems to virtually stop at 300 ppm. Potassium concentration has an effect when increased from 300 to 400 ppm although in my eyes it is not very clear and pronounced. Growth of corals seems to improve, also coloration. Potassium is known as a nutrient.

Rubidium is not proven as an essential nutrient or trace element. The German Wikipedia article says it could be necessary for normal development in pregnancy. Like potassium it is most likely never severly depleted if it was present in the salt mix at the beginning, which is the case in our Tropic Marin salt mixes. The thread you linked did not have very clear results. It would be interesting to know from @Lasse if he has done further trials or further observed the Rb concentration. Did the Rb concentration drop after he has increased it to about 200 µg/l (ppb)? The feeding effect could also have been caused by another element (rubidium for sure was added as a salt) or impurity in the Rb additive.

To make useful statements about the effect of rubidium to corals you would have to know at least where you come from and where you go to in Rb concentration. This is hard to say for most tanks since Rb is not part of normal ICP-OES analyses.
 

Superlightman

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Thanks for this Interessting informations!
Question why their is no potassium in all for reef as it seems to be interesting, because it depleted to slowly?
I'm struggling to find your products actually in Germany and France in shops, just find the all for reef but not the elements A and K and also not the product for increase the phosphate. :-(
I think some of you products are unterrated in Europe. Thinking if I should not open a shop and promote them ;-)
 
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Hans-Werner

Hans-Werner

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Question why their is no potassium in all for reef as it seems to be interesting, because it depleted to slowly?
At least in Germany there was no consensus that potassium supply is necessary or beneficial at all. I also had doubts that there may be any positiv effect of potassium supply.

Armin Glaser, who has written a book "Ratgeber Meerwasserchemie" (Guidebook Saltwater Chemistry), published the position that a little less is better than a little more since concentrations only slightly over the natural concentration of 400 ppm had negative effects to some test organisms like mysids while low concentrations down to 200 ppm had no negative short term effects.

My own first trials with potassium under the instructions of an advocat of potassium dosage went very bad and killed some corals and affected others very badly.

Only recently, after years without any water change in one system, potassium concentration had dropped to 300 ppm and I decided to increase it to the normal 400 ppm which showed some positive effects.

Since our salts are well supplied with potassium and it is easy to keep it at natural levels with normal regular water changes, I do not expect a positive effect of routine potassium dosing, rather a negative effect. I can only recommend a potassium supply for tanks with proven deficiency. For this we offer the products Tropic Marin Potassium and the K+ Pro test kit.
 

Superlightman

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Hello Werner I have bought the element A today, how much should I add to one liter all for reef to get the same as your new recipe?
 

Superlightman

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50ml Trace A to 1L All for Reef
No I think that is the total amount of the new formula, my old all for reef contains already some, but I don't know how much.I want to know how much I need to add to get the 50ml,
 

Hooz

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No I think that is the total amount of the new formula, my old all for reef contains already some, but I don't know how much.I want to know how much I need to add to get the 50ml,

No. He said to add another 50ml of Trace A to 1l of the "old recipe" All for Reef.

It's in a post from Hans on the previous page of this thrad.
 

wolfen281

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Hi,

My name is Hans-Werner Balling and I am doing R&D at Tropic Marin. I also have developed the All-For-Reef.

Iodine is a very important trace element for coral growth, coloration and polyp extension.

Low iodine concentrations slow coral growth, make the brown color fade to a pale grey-beige and especially gorogonians may show reduced or no polyp extension at all.

High iodine concentrations make the corals dark brown but this depends from nitrogen supply also. Iodine is important for the adaptation of coral and zooxanthellae pigmentation, both, photosynthetic pigmentation of the zooxanthellae and fluorescent pigmentation of the coral polyps.

Unfortunately iodine consumption in a tank is neither connected to calcium nor to alkalinity consumption. Rather iodine consumption is dominated by gorgonians and sponges but iodine concentration also affects other corals like leather corals, Heliopora, SPS and LPS, in short quite all corals.

In a thread about ICP analysis I found a post that iodine dosing with our A- Elements and maybe also with All-For-Reef may be rather on the low side. In my opinion slightly high iodine concentrations may be better than low concentrations. I already wondered whether we should increase iodine concentrations in A- Elements and especially in All-For-Reef for some time.

To get clarity about this question I wanted to ask you, what your experiences are. Is iodine concentration of All-For-Reef rather on the low side or exactly right? Which concentrations do you get back from ICP-analysis, 60 ppb or more or less? Do you find any of the descriped symptoms of low iodine concentration in your tank?

Thanks for your contribution.

Hans-Werner
Aug 2021- 100 gal tank start
Nov 2021- started dosing All for Reef (powder)
April 2022- 1st ICP test results all good except for Iodine.
Note: I also use TM Pro salt
 

areefer01

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Aug 2021- 100 gal tank start
Nov 2021- started dosing All for Reef (powder)
April 2022- 1st ICP test results all good except for Iodine.
Note: I also use TM Pro salt

Which ICP did you use?
What is their reported value?'
9 month old based on the dates - what sort of corals are we talking about and size?

I went back through a few years of my ICP results and looked at iodine after I read they increased it. It has always been the same. I also use TM Pro Reef (bio actif when it pro isn't available) to include one full bucket from Turkey...

I'm still on the fence about iodine. I never paid attention to it and it seems like one of those things that is recommended but may, or may not, really. matter. It just feels good so people do it.
 

A Young Reefer

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Which ICP did you use?
What is their reported value?'
9 month old based on the dates - what sort of corals are we talking about and size?

I went back through a few years of my ICP results and looked at iodine after I read they increased it. It has always been the same. I also use TM Pro Reef (bio actif when it pro isn't available) to include one full bucket from Turkey...

I'm still on the fence about iodine. I never paid attention to it and it seems like one of those things that is recommended but may, or may not, really. matter. It just feels good so people do it.
As far as I know the versions with increased iodine hasn’t been released to the market yet.
 

wolfen281

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Which ICP did you use?
What is their reported value?'
9 month old based on the dates - what sort of corals are we talking about and size?

I went back through a few years of my ICP results and looked at iodine after I read they increased it. It has always been the same. I also use TM Pro Reef (bio actif when it pro isn't available) to include one full bucket from Turkey...

I'm still on the fence about iodine. I never paid attention to it and it seems like one of those things that is recommended but may, or may not, really. matter. It just feels good so people do it.

ICP: ATI

Capture.JPG


Corals: SPS, LPS, softies, clams, gorgonian - Mixed reef

Some of my SPS have grown (nothing spectacular)...some SPS seem stalled.

My hammer coral was very unhappy for awhile but is now coming back. The 2 torches I have are great and busting out new heads. Some zoas got ***** but are coming back,

lighting : 2 Kessil 360x with that sit in an aquatic life led fixture. --> I have not done PAR readings yet. :astonished-face:
flow is good. Although I have had to adjust things.

Currently, I have a bryopsis issue that ReefFlux seems to be taking care of.

Conclusion: Things could be better as far as coral growth. But I have no experience so? However, things could be way worse from what I gather.

I'm a newbie reefer so learn as I go

4-3-2022 front.jpeg
 
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areefer01

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ICP: ATI

Capture.JPG


Corals: SPS, LPS, softies, clams, gorgonian - Mixed reef

Some of my SPS have grown (nothing spectacular)...some SPS seem stalled.

My hammer coral was very unhappy for awhile but is now coming back. The 2 torches I have are great and busting out new heads. Some zoas got ***** but are coming back,

lighting : 2 Kessil 360x with that sit in an aquatic life led fixture. --> I have not done PAR readings yet. :astonished-face:
flow is good. Although I have had to adjust things.

Currently, I have a bryopsis issue that ReefFlux seems to be taking care of.

Conclusion: Things could be better as far as coral growth. But I have no experience so? However, things could be way worse from what I gather.

I'm a newbie reefer so learn as I go

4-3-2022 front.jpeg

Thanks for the information / reply. Coral growth is a tough nut to crack. What is better, faster, slower, etc. As long as it is growing and/or progressing I'm happy. But that is just me.

I don't recommend one way or another to other hobbyist dosing iodine or other additives. However, I don't think it is going to hurt anything either. I've dosed it before but being honest I don't think it really did much. To clarify - I didn't see any visual changes before, or after, if that makes sense. So you could take ATI's dosing, cut it in half, and give it a try. I think RHF has an article on iodine that I'd recommend reading first if you haven't already (below).

TL;DR - nice system. Off to a good start.

Iodine article:
 

Ben Pedersen

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At least in Germany there was no consensus that potassium supply is necessary or beneficial at all. I also had doubts that there may be any positiv effect of potassium supply.

Armin Glaser, who has written a book "Ratgeber Meerwasserchemie" (Guidebook Saltwater Chemistry), published the position that a little less is better than a little more since concentrations only slightly over the natural concentration of 400 ppm had negative effects to some test organisms like mysids while low concentrations down to 200 ppm had no negative short term effects.

My own first trials with potassium under the instructions of an advocat of potassium dosage went very bad and killed some corals and affected others very badly.

Only recently, after years without any water change in one system, potassium concentration had dropped to 300 ppm and I decided to increase it to the normal 400 ppm which showed some positive effects.

Since our salts are well supplied with potassium and it is easy to keep it at natural levels with normal regular water changes, I do not expect a positive effect of routine potassium dosing, rather a negative effect. I can only recommend a potassium supply for tanks with proven deficiency. For this we offer the products Tropic Marin Potassium and the K+ Pro test kit.
I recently purchased 3 of the largest powder containers of AFR from BRS. It turns out they are V1. Any way to get them switched out for the new version? I have not opened them yet.
 
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Hans-Werner

Hans-Werner

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Hello Ben,

Please give me the batch number of from the containers. It is printed on the bottom of the container.

I am very sorry but I did not get the sticker as signaled above, but all batches starting with 2.... are the new mixes with higher iodine concentrations.

We desired that it is very easy just to look whether the batch number starts with 2 and that no sticker is necessary.
 

Superlightman

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I could not also find the new batch in German shops, can I order directly from tropic marin?
 
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hoytoyed

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Hello Ben,

Please give me the batch number of from the containers. It is printed on the bottom of the container.

I am very sorry but I did not get the sticker as signaled above, but all batches starting with 2.... are the new mixes with higher iodine concentrations.

We desired that it is very easy just to look whether the batch number starts with 2 and that no sticker is necessary.
I just received the 1600g container of powder last week from bulk reef supply and the lot code starts with 1. Either they aren’t rotating their inventory or they haven’t worked through the old version inventory, or they don’t yet have it yet.
 

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