All For Reef

[CodyF.]

Question,

Tropic Marin states there is a recommended maximum dosage for AFR. What’s the negative for going over this recommendation? I heard AFR is high in copper. Is there any validity to this?

I’ve recently switched my acro dominate tank over to AFR and I’m dosing 45 mils per day and I’m about to increase again. It’s a 50 gallon tank with maybe 40 gallons total in water volume.

It’s holding my Alk lower than I’d like. 7.5-6.9dkh I feel like I’m chasing a number - I don’t like that. I like to keep it above 7 and no higher than 8. Calcium is also low at 380? Mag is about 1200, I believe.

 

[Reef.]

TM have said you can go over their limit as they always tend to be very conservative with their dosage recommendations.
Not sure but I think the limit is to stop AFR becoming a carbon dosing treatment rather than a method to keep your lvls balanced? As AFR has a very small carbon dosing element to it.

You say AFR is struggling to hold your alk, its not designed to raise alk but keep it stable so you are either not increasing the dosage when the demand increases or you aren’t dosing enough.

You should never try and raise your alk with AFR, use something like baking soda, to get the lvl to where you want it, then dosing the correct amount to replace the tanks demand for alk in 24 with AFR.

 

[rishma]

Calcium being low with AFR dosed to maintain alkalinity does not make sense. Calcium will tend to be high, not low. Magnesium tests are never to be believed.

I suspect your salinity is low.

Max dose is based in concern about potential low oxygen due to the carbon dosing effect. My tank is well aerated, I ignore the max recommendation.

What is testing and dosing if not trying to achieve numbers or ranges?

 

[rishma]

TM have said you can go over their limit as they always tend to be very conservative with their dosage recommendations.
Not sure but I think the limit is to stop AFR becoming a carbon dosing treatment rather than a method to keep your lvls balanced?

You say AFR is struggling to hold your alk, its not designed to raise alk but keepmit stable so you are either not increasing the dosage when the demand increases or you aren’t dosing enough.

You should never try and raise your alk with AFR, something like baking soda, then dosing the correct amount to replace the tanks demand for alk in 24 hours.

I raise my alk with AFR all the time. I don’t understand this logic.

 

[Reef.]

I raise my alk with AFR all the time. I don’t understand this logic.

You can but its a silly way to do it as the amount to raise it is not going to be the same amount to keep it balanced.

The instructions even say to not dose AFR until your lvls are balanced to your chosen lvls.

 

[painter1982]

Question,

Tropic Marin states there is a recommended maximum dosage for AFR. What’s the negative for going over this recommendation? I heard AFR is high in copper. Is there any validity to this?

I’ve recently switched my acro dominate tank over to AFR and I’m dosing 45 mils per day and I’m about to increase again. It’s a 50 gallon tank with maybe 40 gallons total in water volume.

It’s holding my Alk lower than I’d like. 7.5-6.9dkh I feel like I’m chasing a number - I don’t like that. I like to keep it above 7 and no higher than 8. Calcium is also low at 380? Mag is about 1200, I believe.

I dose to maintain a stable alkalinity. My calcium hovers 440 to 450, magnesium around 1350. I’m sps dominant also. I don’t chase the alkalinity number, I do chase the trend. If it’s trending for a couple days I adjust.

 

[rishma]

You can but its a silly way to do it as the amount to raise it is not going to be the same amount to keep it balanced

Silly? I don’t agree. If my alk is low and I am using a balanced supplement like AFR or kalk, why would I not dose extra to increase my alkalinity? It also get the corresponding calcium and in the case of AFR, magnesium and trace elements. In the past I would also use kalkwasser to raise alkalinity if needed. Same logic applies.

The instructions even say to not dose AFR until your lvls are balanced to your chosen lvls.

AFR has multiple instructions I don’t follow. I don’t dose based on calcium and I don’t abide by the recommended max. I don’t lose any sleep over it and my tank and ICP results have been good for years, but I don’t fault people who just want to follow the directions. I also think it’s ok to deviate if you understand the chemistry.

Cheers

 

[Reef.]

Silly? I don’t agree. If my alk is low and I am using a balanced supplement like AFR or kalk, why would I not dose extra to increase my alkalinity? It also get the corresponding calcium and in the case of AFR, magnesium and trace elements. In the past I would also use kalkwasser to raise alkalinity if needed. Same logic applies.

AFR has multiple instructions I don’t follow. I don’t dose based on calcium and I don’t abide by the recommended max. I don’t lose any sleep over it and my tank and ICP results have been good for years, but I don’t fault people who just want to follow the directions. I also think it’s ok to deviate if you understand the chemistry.

Cheers

Mate I’m not getting into an argument over something so daft, I have made my point, and answered your question, you have made your point, nothing more to be said that wouldn’t have us going around in circles.

 

[rishma]

Mate I’m not getting into an argument over something so daft, I have made my point, and answered your question, you have made your point, nothing more to be said that wouldn’t have us going around in circles.

Disagreement doesn’t have to be an argument, at least that’s how I viewed it.

 

[BriDroid]

According to TM, the max dose for my nano is 7.57ml. I’m dosing around 13ml a day spread across 13 doses. I have a lot of LPS and SPS. That dose keeps my alk around 8, my calcium around 440 and magnesium around 1350-1400. I also dose Plus-NP for my carbon dosing since I’m using a lot of N and P daily too. My tank looks great, I have no reason to change.

 

[CodyF.]

TM have said you can go over their limit as they always tend to be very conservative with their dosage recommendations.
Not sure but I think the limit is to stop AFR becoming a carbon dosing treatment rather than a method to keep your lvls balanced? As AFR has a very small carbon dosing element to it.

You say AFR is struggling to hold your alk, its not designed to raise alk but keep it stable so you are either not increasing the dosage when the demand increases or you aren’t dosing enough.

You should never try and raise your alk with AFR, use something like baking soda, to get the lvl to where you want it, then dosing the correct amount to replace the tanks demand for alk in 24 with AFR.

Thanks for the advice. I have used an Alk additive multiple times to raise it. I made the switch about a month ago. Ever since, I raise my dosage about 3 mils per week. It’ll hold for a few days, to maybe a week…. Then my ALK starts slipping again. I thought about adding soda-ash with it… but there is a video where Tropic Marin says you dilute the trace elements of you do that. But then they say to use part B of the balling method. Kinda sounds like a sales pitch, IMO.

Nonetheless, my Alk has slipped 1 DKH in about a week. Calcium has never been above 380 since the switch. I raised the dosage 2 more mils. I was just curious and wanted to see if this is normal or not.

 

[exnisstech]

I raise my alk with AFR all the time. I don’t understand this logic.

Going from a bad memory I think i remember reading that TM recommended raising alk to the target level then using AFR to maintain it. I suppose starting AFR on a new tank with alk much lower than desired that might be a good idea since AFR is slow to release. I have no problem raising alk as consumption increases using AFR.

 

[CodyF.]

Calcium being low with AFR dosed to maintain alkalinity does not make sense. Calcium will tend to be high, not low. Magnesium tests are never to be believed.

I suspect your salinity is low.

Max dose is based in concern about potential low oxygen due to the carbon dosing effect. My tank is well aerated, I ignore the max recommendation.

What is testing and dosing if not trying to achieve numbers or ranges?

My salinity at the moment is 1.025 using a refract. with calibration solution.

I am more concerned with the trend over time, not really the number today-consistency I guess…? But consistency between 7-8dkh. I guess I should have said I’m not really trying to keep my DKH at 7.5 and that is it.

My calcium has always ran a little low on this system. I prefer my salinity at 1.026, but my filter floss was really dirty so my ATO dosed more fresh water. Driving salinity down a bit. Non the less, 380 is what my new Salifert test kit says and a Red Sea test kit as well.

 

[rishma]

Going from a bad memory I think i remember reading that TM recommended raising alk to the target level then using AFR to maintain it. I suppose starting AFR on a new tank with alk much lower than desired that might be a good idea since AFR is slow to release. I have no problem raising alk as consumption increases using AFR.

That might be what TM says, would not surprise me, but I don’t understand the logic. I suspect they are worried about people getting fooled by the delayed alkalinity response. I also know the bottle used to (still?) recommends dialing in the dose using calcium measurements, perhaps for the same reason.

 

[BriDroid]

I raise my alk with AFR all the time. I don’t understand this logic.

Me too. It just takes a few days to stabilize.

 

[rishma]

My salinity at the moment is 1.025 using a refract. with calibration solution.

I am more concerned with the trend over time, not really the number today-consistency I guess…? But consistency between 7-8dkh. I guess I should have said I’m not really trying to keep my DKH at 7.5 and that is it.

My calcium has always ran a little low on this system. I prefer my salinity at 1.026, but my filter floss was really dirty so my ATO dosed more fresh water. Driving salinity down a bit. Non the less, 380 is what my new Salifert test kit says and a Red Sea test kit as well.

Are you using a dosing pump or measuring by hand? I target 8-9dkH but it stays in a much narrower range. I’m not sure what to make of the variation you are seeing

 

[CodyF.]

According to TM, the max dose for my nano is 7.57ml. I’m dosing around 13ml a day spread across 13 doses. I have a lot of LPS and SPS. That dose keeps my alk around 8, my calcium around 440 and magnesium around 1350-1400. I also dose Plus-NP for my carbon dosing since I’m using a lot of N and P daily too. My tank looks great, I have no reason to change.

Thanks for that.

 

[CodyF.]

My salinity at the moment is 1.025 using a refract. with calibration solution.

I am more concerned with the trend over time, not really the number today-consistency I guess…? But consistency between 7-8dkh. I guess I should have said I’m not really trying to keep my DKH at 7.5 and that is it.

My calcium has always ran a little low on this system. I prefer my salinity at 1.026, but my filter floss was really dirty so my ATO dosed more fresh water. Driving salinity down a bit. Non the less, 380 is what my new Salifert test kit says and a Red Sea test kit as well.

Are you using a dosing pump or measuring by hand? I target 8-9dkH but it stays in a much narrower range. I’m not sure what to make of the variation you are seeing

I’m using the RedSea dose 4. My dosage is spread out over either 24 or 12 hours… can’t remember at the moment. Either way, it’s dosed hourly

 

[CodyF.]

My salinity at the moment is 1.025 using a refract. with calibration solution.

I am more concerned with the trend over time, not really the number today-consistency I guess…? But consistency between 7-8dkh. I guess I should have said I’m not really trying to keep my DKH at 7.5 and that is it.

My calcium has always ran a little low on this system. I prefer my salinity at 1.026, but my filter floss was really dirty so my ATO dosed more fresh water. Driving salinity down a bit. Non the less, 380 is what my new Salifert test kit says and a Red Sea test kit as well.

Are you using a dosing pump or measuring by hand? I target 8-9dkH but it stays in a much narrower range. I’m not sure what to make of the variation you are seeing

Maybe my salinity calibration solution could not be correct?

 

[rishma]

Maybe my salinity calibration solution could not be correct?

Due to many issues with purchased calibration solutions, I DIY with table salt per the attached. My $9 Amazon scale is good enough to do it.

www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/

Also, Tropic Marin glass hydrometers seems to be quite good. Mine is dead on and it seems others have good luck with them too.