ALL LPS Dying - Parameters look good (ICP test) - not sure what to do

Ky_acc · Jan 31, 2021

I will try to keep this post brief, but my problem currently is that all of my LPS are dying, buy my zoas and rock flowers are doing just fine. I am honestly at a loss for how to proceed.

I just received my ICP results back from ATI. Take a look at the screenshot below, but all parameters are in line. Phosphate and Nitrate are a bit low, DKH is about a point higher than I like, but nothing that should be causing mass die-off of all LPS that I can see. The Aluminum / Silicates are high, but those were high in my last ICP test as well 4 months ago and things were thriving. Also my ICP test for the RODI water I am using came back completely 0 (no nitrate/phos or pollutants at all)

The only thing that has happened that I can point to:

I had an outbreak of Cladophoropsis (a weird tube like algae that is uncommon -- this stuff was EVERYWHERE, see pic below for reference. this was literally growing all over all my rock and between corasl, etc.). I have been getting rid of this by dosing algaefix ( the only solution to this algae I have found on the forums) and manually removing it by brushing it with a toothbrush, essentially dissolving it as it's impossible to pull off.

cladophoropsis algae -- seems to be rare, not much info out there.

a mass die-off of coralline algae in early to mid December which seems to have kicked all of this off. I am not sure what caused that but pretty much lost all of my coralline. It has all come back now and is growing everywhere fine again.

My only hypothesis is that the Cladophoropsis algae contains some toxin, and by scrubbing it off with a toothbrush I have released it into the water and the LPS dont like it?

Anyways here are some pictures for reference. Really frustrating to deal with this as I have lost about $1000 in Coral over the past 1.5 months. The LPS all just seem to be slowly losing color and withering away.

I have been doing weekly 25% water changes weekly for the past month so I think my water is good for the most part now, which has been confirmed by my ICP test. Truly at a loss...

Here is what the tank looks like now — all LPS dying. Zoas and Rock flowers all seem to be doing fine:

Here is back when my tank looked good for reference (early Nov. 2020 - about 3 months ago)

ICP test results - received this back from ATI on 1/22/2021 (Note, Col. 3 is the baseline, col. 2 is the result from my sample)

IslandLifeReef · Jan 31, 2021

Are you running any carbon in your tank? If not, I would consider it if you suspect a toxin from the algae.

I would also recommend lowering your ALK and CALC. Both of those are on the higher end. I would shoot for 7.5-8.5 dKh and around 400 ppm for CALC

NeonRabbit221B · Jan 31, 2021

I am not familiar with that type of algae. Maybe #reefsquad can help.

I would test stray voltage/current, run carbon and dip for pests. Any other major changes?

DarthSimon · Jan 31, 2021

Do you run GFO?

Dkmoo · Jan 31, 2021

tank pH? both current and avg last 3 - 4 months? struggling LPS but softie OK could be sign of long term pH issue. Low pH makes LPS brittle/weaker/more sensitive to environmental stressors. Whenever I hear "dying LPS but softie OK" i want to first rule out pH as issue.

Likely chain of events could be: low ph -> harder to calcify -> weaker coraline/LPS ->some kind of triggering event (ie, your algae problem) that upset the balance or tipped things over -> coralline first to go -> massive dieoff causing further imbalance -> bacteria feeding on dieoff -> increase in CO2 -> even worse pH -> downward spiral.

Ky_acc · Jan 31, 2021

NeonRabbit221B said:
I am not familiar with that type of algae. Maybe #reefsquad can help.

I would test stray voltage/current, run carbon and dip for pests. Any other major changes?

Dkmoo said:
tank pH? both current and avg last 3 - 4 months? struggling LPS but softie OK could be sign of long term pH issue. Low pH makes LPS brittle/weaker/more sensitive to environmental stressors. Whenever I hear "dying LPS but softie OK" i want to first rule out pH as issue.

Likely chain of events could be: low ph -> harder to calcify -> weaker coraline/LPS ->some kind of triggering event (ie, your algae problem) that upset the balance or tipped things over -> coralline first to go -> massive dieoff causing further imbalance -> bacteria feeding on dieoff -> increase in CO2 -> even worse pH -> downward spiral.

So I actually have been running a co2 scrubber for about 2.5 months.

prior to hooking up the reactor my ph was very low as I’m in an apartment that is very sealed off from the outside.

ph was previously about 7.7 - 7.85 but now with the co2 scrubber I peak at about 8.2 and bottom out at about 8.05. So avg for the past 2.5 months prob about 8.1 ish

Tamberav · Jan 31, 2021

How were the LPS before you started dosing Algaefix?

Ky_acc · Jan 31, 2021

Tamberav said:
How were the LPS before you started dosing Algaefix?

I haven't used tis product but it says for Freshwater use and states LA:

Seems to me if it isn't safe for shrimp, it isn't safe for corals.

yes I did see this and was a bit heasitant, but read about others here using it without issue so went ahead with using it.

I have some snails, an urchin and peppermint shrimp, none of them have been affected from what I can see.

that said I can’t say this product hasn’t been the cause of my lps die off as they started going down hill within the same timeframe I have been using this stuff — so entirely possible this is to blame

Just odd because plenty of people here have used it without issue and it’s the only thing I could find someone saying worked against my rare strain of algae.

Tamberav · Jan 31, 2021

Ky_acc said:
yes I did see this and was a bit heasitant, but read about others here using it without issue so went ahead with using it.

I have some snails, an urchin and peppermint shrimp, none of them have been affected from what I can see.

that said I can’t say this product hasn’t been the cause of my lps die off as they started going down hill within the same timeframe I have been using this stuff — so entirely possible this is to blame

Just odd because plenty of people here have used it without issue and it’s the only thing I could find someone saying worked against my rare strain of algae.

Is it the Marine Algaefix or the normal one?

Apparently there are two types.

Pretty much most products to fix algae work for plenty but every so often a person loses a ton of things in their tank from it. Flucanazole and Vibrant are both guilty of this.

littlefishy · Jan 31, 2021

You mentioned this, but algae/stony coral allelopathy?
The recent variables look to be: algae destruction; marine algaefix; co2 scrubber.

Bruce60 · Jan 31, 2021

I am so very sorry to see this. It is difficult to be sure what has happened, but when one genus is wiped out while another appears fine I think about some type of pathogen, whether microscopic or visible to the eye, especially when you have been making regular water changes and testing appears fine (at least the more common ones I understand). Could it be from this algae? What about something in the batch of salt mix you have been using? LPS COVID? It will be difficult to prove exactly what happened for sure. The next question is how to proceed.

I agree with others that you should run a high quality carbon or other material and continue to make regular increased water changes. Once you get rid of the algae and the tank stabilizes you can try to introduce one frag of a similar species and see if it survives or not. If the situation continues to deteriorate and more species become involved, I would immediately try and isolate any apparently uninvolved species into another system (if you have one and only after dipping any specimens well) and do a hard reset on the involved system.

Good luck and please provide an update when you can!

Ky_acc · Jan 31, 2021

Bruce60 said:
I am so very sorry to see this. It is difficult to be sure what has happened, but when one genus is wiped out while another appears fine I think about some type of pathogen, whether microscopic or visible to the eye, especially when you have been making regular water changes and testing appears fine (at least the more common ones I understand). Could it be from this algae? What about something in the batch of salt mix you have been using? LPS COVID? It will be difficult to prove exactly what happened for sure. The next question is how to proceed.

I agree with others that you should run a high quality carbon or other material and continue to make regular increased water changes. Once you get rid of the algae and the tank stabilizes you can try to introduce one frag of a similar species and see if it survives or not. If the situation continues to deteriorate and more species become involved, I would immediately try and isolate any apparently uninvolved species into another system (if you have one and only after dipping any specimens well) and do a hard reset on the involved system.

Good luck and please provide an update when you can!

Thank you for the response.

I have been running carbon off and on (brs rox) but have been inconsistent as I am thinking that it might be stripping out the algae fix that I am dosing and therefore reducing the impact on the cladophoropsis (I have been seeing this recede due to manual removal and presumably the algae fix)

i also assumed it might be a pest of some sort, but have been unable to see any evidence of this throughout a number of inspections.

I also did consider a pathogen of some sort, which I have been unable to rule out (mostly because I have no familiarity with reef pathogens). I do run a UV sterilizer which feels like all I can do for a theoretical pathogen invasion. I haven’t seen any signs of anything like brown jelly disease, and it is not limited to just the euphillia — other lps are dying as well.

on the salt mix I had been using tropic Marin probiotic ( previously was using the TM pro reef but had to switch to probiotic as the TM pro was out of stock everywhere).

Just this past week I switched salts entirely to HW marinemix reef. I was tired of dealing with the TM shortages and wanted to move away from the TM probiotic as you can’t premix and store it.

I will keep everyone updated. I feel like all I can do is keep moving forward with my water changes and general good maintenance.