Analyzing a Bacterial Method for Dinoflagellates (and cyano?)

[Dan_P]

On your last question they do fade away - run out of easy meals I suspect. Dr Tim makes a gel that slow releases waste-away over month for that reason (bacteria don't stay in system indefinitely).
Test tubes? Once unsuccessfully. Giving it another shot.

(grunge that had built up in a neglected algae tank over months, tested vs 3 different "grunge eating" bacterial blends with and without ethanol.)
So right now my observations are based on my aquarium.

I wonder if the test tubes went anaerobic. I assume waste away is aerobic bacteria mix.

Fun fact: in waste water treatment, less sludge is produced in an anaerobic digester than an aerobic digester. Hard to translate that information into implication for an aquarium. One take away is that waste is converted to bacteria mass, though it should be less than original mass because a portion goes to making energy (CO2). Since the bacterial mass is presumably in the substrate, I wonder about its fate.

 

[taricha]

Those test tubes have just been started. Will be watching them for a while.
Waste away has to be aerobic based on its prescribed use.
I assume the aerobic vs anaerobic sludge mass means that more aquarium grunge is digestable in anaerobic conditions, so once pile of grunge gets deep enough/buried enough into sand then more of it can be digested.
Sounds like a possible trigger for nuisance growth at the surface.

 

[MickeyCT]

Interested and following along to see these results. I'm just about to start silica dosing to fight my battle but may need to switch to this.

My brain hurts from trying to understand all this. Great work!

Mickey

 

[Dan_P]

Interested and following along to see these results. I'm just about to start silica dosing to fight my battle but may need to switch to this.

My brain hurts from trying to understand all this. Great work!

Mickey

I have a local infestation of dinoflagellates in my sump/refugium. I started to dose sodium metasilicate to 1 ppm. It is consumption within a few days. Dinoflagellates live on though.

 

[MickeyCT]

I figure I have nothing to lose by trying. My tank is 15 years old or so and I've been fighting a mess for almost two years - ever since I replaced my sand bed. First it was cyano and once that was taken care of it's dinos. Luckily they are almost exclusively on the sand. Tank looks great when the lights are off because the dinos migrate under the top layer. Once lights come on, sand becomes a mix of brownish, reddish, greenish stuff. When I examine it under scope I see no diatoms at all so I'll start dosing silica to encourage the diatom growth and hope to outcompete the dinos. If it doesn't work, I'm no worse off.

Next step will be the method described in this thread depending on what else comes out in this discussion.

Mickey

 

[Cruz_Arias]

@taricha

Gas displacement by inducing a positive oxygen pressure in the water column does force out co2 and other metabolic gasses.

It's the same principle of "no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time"...

You are correct, passive means of gas exchange isn't effective, but by active means of pushing oxygen back into the water column is effective.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Thank you @taricha for starting this thread and contributing your thoughts and opinions as agnostically as possible.

Hopefully this will help many others suffering the dinoflagellate plague. The method and regimen is meant to evolve based on repeatability and circumstances.

There is always room for uniformity and improvement...

 

[Tjm23slo]

I figure I have nothing to lose by trying.

....

Next step will be the method described in this thread depending on what else comes out in this discussion.

Mickey

Mickey - Have you tried micro or nano bubbling at night with air from the outdoors. (fresh air) If it gets set up right is really helps with corals and some with ph stability or oxygenation of the water. Amazing the slime that corals release when bubbling occurs. The less CO2 in the system the less available to Dinos.

The method sort of resets the bacteria in the system. I have ran this once and it really knocked back the dinos but in 2 weeks I saw a few patches intermixed with my Diatoms and small patches GFA and GHA. After 5 weeks, I gave it another shot. I am only day 2 after the method, but no coral or fish loss. Sand is white and my nutrients are really low. Starting to raise them back up as corals recover method. If I see any rust/brown this time, I am running it one more time.

 

[Dan_P]

I figure I have nothing to lose by trying. My tank is 15 years old or so and I've been fighting a mess for almost two years - ever since I replaced my sand bed. First it was cyano and once that was taken care of it's dinos. Luckily they are almost exclusively on the sand. Tank looks great when the lights are off because the dinos migrate under the top layer. Once lights come on, sand becomes a mix of brownish, reddish, greenish stuff. When I examine it under scope I see no diatoms at all so I'll start dosing silica to encourage the diatom growth and hope to outcompete the dinos. If it doesn't work, I'm no worse off.

Next step will be the method described in this thread depending on what else comes out in this discussion.

Mickey

Having read some of @brandon429 threads on cleaning substrate, I was surprised to read that you had problems after replacing the sand bef.

 

[brandon429]

Curious to see the work thread on it can you post it just to see what stands out. we like to check details like pre rinsing the new sand, rocks being cleared of detritus along with the sand being swapped (so that upwelling events wont feed invaders if present) and a few other details.

additionally, there are some rinses in the sand rinse thread that require hand guiding after the fact, follow up work. if the initial swap is left untended there are invaders that remass given enough time agreed to that as well. the #1 thing we try to impart is a bed that can be direct accessed and will not cause a recycle or loss to inhabitants as its worked as needed to suppress X, and then many times the rinse actually cures the issue anyway by sheer force of export.

 

[Pyrosteve]

I'll also be trying this method in the next day or two for amphidium. Waste-away should be here tomorrow. The only change will be Bio-Spira instead of Colony. I'll post the results.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

If you're curious... we help people with this method here also...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1105945762763724/

 

[Cruz_Arias]

The fresh air bubbling uses a specific method in which to generate very very very fine bubble mist for the displacement of CO2 with fresh outside air, higher in O2 concentration.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I'll also be trying this method in the next day or two for amphidium. Waste-away should be here tomorrow. The only change will be Bio-Spira instead of Colony. I'll post the results.

The bacteria in the regimen were suggested for a reason.

Don't expect chocolate cake without using chocolate or cocoa...

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I figure I have nothing to lose by trying. My tank is 15 years old or so and I've been fighting a mess for almost two years - ever since I replaced my sand bed. First it was cyano and once that was taken care of it's dinos. Luckily they are almost exclusively on the sand. Tank looks great when the lights are off because the dinos migrate under the top layer. Once lights come on, sand becomes a mix of brownish, reddish, greenish stuff. When I examine it under scope I see no diatoms at all so I'll start dosing silica to encourage the diatom growth and hope to outcompete the dinos. If it doesn't work, I'm no worse off.

Next step will be the method described in this thread depending on what else comes out in this discussion.

Mickey

You should dose silicates and Nualgi...

 

[Pyrosteve]

The bacteria in the regimen were suggested for a reason.

Don't expect chocolate cake without using chocolate or cocoa...

Understood. Instructions state ATM colony (or comparable). Is Bio-Spira not comparable? Both have nitrifying bacteria Nitrococcus & Nitrosococcus? IO Bio-Spira also contains nitrosospira and nitrospira (I don't believe these are in ATM colony). Are these not wanted?

I also have Seachem Stability if that is better than Bio. I have both but would have to order ATM Colony. What do you recommend?

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Understood. Instructions state ATM colony (or comparable). Is Bio-Spira not comparable? Both have nitrifying bacteria Nitrococcus & Nitrosococcus? IO Bio-Spira also contains nitrosospira and nitrospira (I don'r beleive these are in ATM colony). Are these not wanted?

I also have Seachem Stability if that is better than Bio. I have both but would have to order ATM Colony. What do you recommend?

Try BioSpira... I couldn't list it because I didn't use it... hope that makes sense.

We've used ATM Colony and One and Only... hm keep us posted. Maybe the strains would work better.

 

[Pyrosteve]

Ok. From my understandng Bio and One and Only are similar. I'll give it a go.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

Ok. From my understandng Bio and One and Only are similar. I'll give it a go.

Let me know if you need fine tuning on the fresh air aeration we use...