Any one doing Tropic Marin Balling system?

[LadyTang2]

Not recommended. If you want to supplement trace elements use Tropic Marin Trace A and Trace K.

Can the following be said...

Trace A and K is better...If you want to add trace for anything other than when using TM balling A and B, ie because your using a carx or 2 part only delivering ca / alk.

Part C is really only to be used with TM balling A and B.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Can the following be said...

Trace A and K is better...If you want to add trace for anything other than when using TM balling A and B, ie because your using a carx or 2 part only delivering ca / alk.

Part C is really only to be used with TM balling A and B.

In general yes. I'm just not sure what you mean by "carx". But everything else you have said is correct.

 

[Silver14SS]

CaRx = calcium reactor.

I'm getting confused with all the hypotheticals. If I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef + all 3 parts of the TM Balling system, should I need to supplement with trace elements and Mg?

 

[Lou Ekus]

CaRx = calcium reactor.

I'm getting confused with all the hypotheticals. If I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef + all 3 parts of the TM Balling system, should I need to supplement with trace elements and Mg?

The Balling MEthod only addresses Ca and alkalinity, and keeps the solution ionically balanced in relation to your additions. It does NOT address supplemntation for used Mg or trace elements.

 

[Silver14SS]

Are there any Tropic Marin products that would be dosed in the same volume as the Balling Method that would supplement Mg and trace?

I have an Alkatronic and Dosetronic, the dosing volume is adjusted based on Alk reading. I've got 2 more dosing heads available that could be put to use

 

[hotdrop]

Seems like part c was a waste of money in retrospect. I guess Red Sea trace is the way to go

 

[LadyTang2]

Are there any Tropic Marin products that would be dosed in the same volume as the Balling Method that would supplement Mg and trace?

I have an Alkatronic and Dosetronic, the dosing volume is adjusted based on Alk reading. I've got 2 more dosing heads available that could be put to use

If you want to supplement trace then you use A and K, they have a mag product also.

So from the top, the 3 part balling method (A, B, and C) will supplement Ca and Alk while maintaining ionic balance. The only occasional thing you need to test is salinity as it can slowly increase with balling (also true for b ionic), all you do to lower it is occasionally (not often!) add some RODI.

It's still not exactly clear to me why part c cant just be used to supplement trace and mag.

What I really want to know is, does the balling method result in water more like pro reef or classic salt?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What I really want to know is, does the balling method result in water more like pro reef or classic salt?

Part C is not going to significantly supplement the tank. it has, by design, very little of trace elements in it. Same that a tiny water change would provide. It is mostly magnesium and sulfate, some potassium, and less of everything else.

if you want to supplement, say, iron or iodine, both of which deplete fast, a different supplement is needed that has a lot more of these.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Seems like part c was a waste of money in retrospect.

For sure not if you want to keep your saltwater ionically balanced. In my opinion much of the potassium hype was a consequence of ionically imbalanced additives.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For sure not if you want to keep your saltwater ionically balanced. In my opinion much of the potassium hype was a consequence of ionically imbalanced additives.

Thanks, Hans-Werner, I agree.

 

[LadyTang2]

The Balling MEthod only addresses Ca and alkalinity, and keeps the solution ionically balanced in relation to your additions. It does NOT address supplemntation for used Mg or trace elements.

So when considering carbocalcium vs balling, I'd choose balling...

Carbocalcium: Slight ph lowering, carbon dosing, and oxygen depletion. I want to be clear, for those of you who are reading this and don't have super high ca and alk needs, carbocalcium or even better all-for-reef is potentially the best product out there considering it's ease of use.

Balling: Just check your salinity now and then. You have to dose 3 things but again just maintain salinity.

Lou, would you agree that for those of us who don't mind the extra work the 3 part balling is still slightly superior for the aforementioned reasons especially if you have high ca and alk needs?

 

[Lou Ekus]

So when considering carbocalcium vs balling, I'd choose balling...

Carbocalcium: Slight ph lowering, carbon dosing, and oxygen depletion. I want to be clear, for those of you who are reading this and don't have super high ca and alk needs, carbocalcium or even better all-for-reef is potentially the best product out there considering it's ease of use.

Balling: Just check your salinity now and then. You have to dose 3 things but again just maintain salinity.

Lou, would you agree that for those of us who don't mind the extra work the 3 part balling is still slightly superior for the aforementioned reasons especially if you have high ca and alk needs?

Actually, I don't totally agree. They are both for slightly different applications.

If there is a significant variation in the need for Ca and alkalinity, then the Balling Method gives you a very easy way to address that on a consistent daily basis. You can still do it with the Carbocalcium. It's just smoother to do it every day with Balling.

If, on the other hand, the Ca and alkalinity usage is quite consistent and in proportion, then it is hard to beat the ease and simplicity of the Carbocalcium.

I don't agree with the down side assessments of the Carbocalcium. In my opinion, the oxygen depletion and carbon dosing benefits are so minute, that they are not an advantage or disadvantage either way. And I have seen very little change in pH from the Carbocalcium addition, if any at all. So, for me, the deciding factor comes down to the need to adjust the levels or not.

 

[FlyPenFly]

So I think I'm switching from the Aqua Forest solution to the BRS/Tropic Marin solution. Mostly because it seems TM offers a wider range of trace element replenishment. My tank has a high Mg uptake currently.

In the AF solution, they combine the chloride free salt with Mg and Potassium. So in their solution, you only need to have 3 dosers for Ca, Alk, Mg + Salt.

In the BRS TM solution, it seems I will 4 dosers? Ca, Alk, Mg, Salt?

I have 5 clams and some small SPS colonies in a small tank so my uptake is relatively high. I also run a maxed out kalk reactor from Avast. I have to keep that dosing down to about 1900ml a day because of my evaporation rate.

 

[Lou Ekus]

So I think I'm switching from the Aqua Forest solution to the BRS/Tropic Marin solution. Mostly because it seems TM offers a wider range of trace element replenishment. My tank has a high Mg uptake currently.

In the AF solution, they combine the chloride free salt with Mg and Potassium. So in their solution, you only need to have 3 dosers for Ca, Alk, Mg + Salt.

In the BRS TM solution, it seems I will 4 dosers? Ca, Alk, Mg, Salt?

I have 5 clams and some small SPS colonies in a small tank so my uptake is relatively high. I also run a maxed out kalk reactor from Avast. I have to keep that dosing down to about 1900ml a day because of my evaporation rate.

That is correct. The advantage is that you maintain control over the amount of Mg you have to add to the system. Some systems will use a lot of Mg. Others will use very little. And some will go from one way to the other. The Mg uptake is not always proportional to the Ca/alkalinity uptake like the trace element uptake is. So it is very nice to have that additional control over the amount of Mg you need to add. The cost, as you point out, is an additional dosing pump!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I think I'm switching from the Aqua Forest solution to the BRS/Tropic Marin solution. Mostly because it seems TM offers a wider range of trace element replenishment.

Just to clarify, Balling is not a trace element supplement. It contains them, but it has just enough to keep them stable if there was no demand (say, from tissue growth) and you were adding sodium bicarbonate/carbonate and calcium chloride for calcium and alkalinity.

If you feel you want to add trace elements that growing organisms (e.g., macroalgae, corals, etc.) may take up, then that would be a separate additive.

 

[FlyPenFly]

That is correct. The advantage is that you maintain control over the amount of Mg you have to add to the system. Some systems will use a lot of Mg. Others will use very little. And some will go from one way to the other. The Mg uptake is not always proportional to the Ca/alkalinity uptake like the trace element uptake is. So it is very nice to have that additional control over the amount of Mg you need to add. The cost, as you point out, is an additional dosing pump!

Yeah unfortunately I'm running out of space near the tank between Kalk, Alk, Ca, Mg, Salt, and vinegar dosing. With a Trident sitting next to it all.

Maybe I should have just gone with the Ca Reactor... but between the Co2 tank, reactor itself, it's own pumps... really need a whole fish room.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Just to clarify, Balling is not a trace element supplement. It contains them, but it has just enough to keep them stable if there was no demand (say, from tissue growth) and you were adding sodium bicarbonate/carbonate and calcium chloride for calcium and alkalinity.

If you feel you want to add trace elements that growing organisms (e.g., macroalgae, corals, etc.) may take up, then that would be a separate additive.

To add one more thing to Randy Holmes-Farley's comment...if you are using the true Balling method, and you would like to include trace elements, it can be done with the Trace K and Trace A from Tropic Marin. I'm not sure about other brands of traces, just because I don't work for them. The TM Trace K can be added to the Balling Part A (the calcium chloride) and the TM Trace A can be added to the Balling Part B (sodium bicarbonate). This actually makes some sense too. Because, if the system is using more Balling A and B, then it is also using more trace elements. So if the traces are included in the solutions, you get an automatic proportional increase in each.

 

[FlyPenFly]

To add one more thing to Randy Holmes-Farley's comment...if you are using the true Balling method, and you would like to include trace elements, it can be done with the Trace K and Trace A from Tropic Marin. I'm not sure about other brands of traces, just because I don't work for them. The TM Trace K can be added to the Balling Part A (the calcium chloride) and the TM Trace A can be added to the Balling Part B (sodium bicarbonate). This actually makes some sense too. Because, if the system is using more Balling A and B, then it is also using more trace elements. So if the traces are included in the solutions, you get an automatic proportional increase in each.

Yes, I plan to follow the BRS video on this where they have some recommendations on how much to use. I will run some ICP tests once everything is a bit more stabilized to fine tune my trace dosing.

 

[Trevor40]

I run the Tropic Marin, All For Reef and only have 1 dosing pump. I’m very happy with all the growth of my acropora.

 

[FlyPenFly]

This is certainly an interesting solution as well. Maybe I should have went this route and reduced the complexity of my system.

DIY Tropic Marin All for Reef (One Part Dosing Solution)

Couple of folks at the meeting sounded very interested in Tropic Marin All For Reef One Part that I am currently using on my 60 Cube. Buying those remade bottles is ridiculously expensive, if you go that route you'll be spending a lot of money. However, there is a DIY Recipe you can use that...

www.reef2reef.com