DIY Tropic Marin All for Reef (One Part Dosing Solution)

amoore311

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Couple of folks at the meeting sounded very interested in Tropic Marin All For Reef One Part that I am currently using on my 60 Cube. Buying those remade bottles is ridiculously expensive, if you go that route you'll be spending a lot of money.

However, there is a DIY Recipe you can use that significantly reduces the cost of the solution. This is what I use. Here Is the exact recipe with products links to BRS. I am not currently including the magnesium in my mix because my magnesium constantly tests high. This recipe is direct from Lou Ekkus, of Tropic Marin USA.


8 parts Carbo-Calcium Powder- https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/carbo-calcium-powder...

1 part A- Elements- https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-coral-a-trace-1-tropic...

1 part K+ Elements- https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-coral-k-trace-2-tropic...

12 g Bio-Magnesium per 140 g CarboCalcium-
 

Bramzor

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Talking about prices and improvements. There is a powder which should hold the same trace elements as K+ and A- combined: Tropic Marin Pro-Coral Mineral which is highly concentrated so better than buying the 2 bottles.

Haven’t figured out how this fits in the current recipe though.

I mixed Bio-Magnesium with CarboCalcium yesterday and worked fine. Though on the powder I noticed that there are also other parts on the Bio-Magnesium like some Calcium etc.
 

vetteguy53081

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Do you add this to your top off water or dose it directly into the tank?
I add mine to return pump area so it is stirred and distributed to the tank
 
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amoore311

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Do you add this to your top off water or dose it directly into the tank?

The CarboCalcium on its own I know with 100% certainty you can dose it just like Kalk. It will hold ALOT more CA/ALK then Kalk, but it will have no affect on your PH. CarboCalcium in regards to supplementing CA/ALK is a direct replacement for kalkwasser.

I am using a basic BRS Dosing pump to dose the All For Reef.
 
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Bramzor

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Do you add this to your top off water or dose it directly into the tank?
You cannot put it together with RO water like you would do with kalkwaser. Will cause bacteria issues as it’s a formate (will become available over time as bacteria consumes it). So it needs to be dosed.
 

Bramzor

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Here is a video on a similar product giving more information on one part dosing.

Thanks for the post Adam.
This is an acetate, which is not similar to All4Reef as Tropic Marin is using a formate instead. Acetate has a few disadvantages like if you have a high KH and Ca usage in an SPS tank, you cannot dose enough to the system because of CO2 issues. Formate doesn't have this kind of issues.
 

Chessmanmark

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Thanks for the chemistry lesson. This is all new to me.

Adam, how much product do you make with those ingredients?

Many of us make a gallon of alk and a gallon of calcium. I buy the small packages from BRS that pre-measure it out for you.

How many gallons does it make?
What is the cost comparison?

Dosing one product sounds easier that dosing two.

Are there any long term build threads that you are aware of using this method?
 
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amoore311

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Thanks for the chemistry lesson. This is all new to me.

Adam, how much product do you make with those ingredients?

Many of us make a gallon of alk and a gallon of calcium. I buy the small packages from BRS that pre-measure it out for you.

How many gallons does it make?
What is the cost comparison?

Dosing one product sounds easier that dosing two.

Are there any long term build threads that you are aware of using this method?

The base product (calcium formate) has been popular in europe for a long time, but it's really only just being introduced to america when Tropic Marin brought it here a few months ago. I am going to post a link to a video by my buddy Devan at Reef Dudes, he interviewed Lou and it explain the product better than I or anyone else could. So long term build threads you will not find. I know there are 3-4 office tanks using the All For Reef, and tons of positive experiences on their Facebook Group.

As far as a cost comparison you'd need to run the number on the DI Recipe. Dry CarboCalcium (CA/ALK) is only beaten out cost wise by BRS 2 Part. I don't think the addition of the mag and trace would toss it that much more out of whack cost wise but I have not run the numbers.

If you buy the remade All for Reef Liquid..... that is literally THE most expensive way to dose your tank lol. Its crazy how much the cost of adding liquid to the mix ups the cost. (mostly due to additional cost to ship.)

I make the product to go into my Apex DDR, so I'm making a liter and a half roughly at a clip. The recipe scales though so you can make as much or as little as you want.
 
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amoore311

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You cannot put it together with RO water like you would do with kalkwaser. Will cause bacteria issues as it’s a formate (will become available over time as bacteria consumes it). So it needs to be dosed.
This is incorrect. Per @Lou Ekus you can absolutely add CarboCalcium Powder directly to your ATO Reservoir and dose it just like kalkwasser.
 

Bramzor

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This is incorrect. Per @Lou Ekus you can absolutely add CarboCalcium Powder directly to your ATO Reservoir and dose it just like kalkwasser.
I started a topic to discuss if it was possible to dilute the product with RO and it was told it was a bad idea. Adding it to ATO is in my opinion doing the same thing as diluting it with RO water.... Unless you mix an ATO with the correct mix of the powder but nobody would do that right?
So per my understanding, it's not possible.
 
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amoore311

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Hopefully Lou will chime in to clarify. I like to get my info right from the source, so I asked Lou everything I could think of on Facebook before using the product. I trust his judgement, he IS Tropic Marin USA after all lol.

Why would you not mix an ATO with the correct mix of powder though would be my question. I measure the amount of kalk I use in my ATO, why wouldn't I measure out the Carbo?
 

Bramzor

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Why would you not mix an ATO with the correct mix of powder though would be my question. I measure the amount of kalk I use in my ATO, why wouldn't I measure out the Carbo?
You cannot do that. If you measure it like on the package, your mix will create a carbocalcium mixture that is high of KH/CA which needs to be dosed. If this comes with your ATO, you are dosing WAY too much of it.
Only way you could do it is if you add a small amount of the powder to ATO and hope it's correct but when you do that you are diluting it which might cause fungal contamination.

It's not an easy chemical that you can easily dilute or add to ATO, its together with a carbon source so that leaves out diluting it.
 
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amoore311

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Very cool. Will be checking out the video. Wondering if this could ever be an option for an SPS heavy reef consuming upwards of 200ml of BRS 2 part / day.
There's a few things to consider here:

-First you want to look at the strength of the stock solution. Let's compare.

DIY 2 Part contains roughly 37,000 PPM/Gallon of Solution
All For Reef has 40,000PPM/Liter of Solution. Roughly 4x Times as potent as DIY 2 Part.

-Second you want to look at the inherent problems you have with the 2 Part Balling Method. Every time you dose you are increasing salinity due to the chloride portion of your two part. The more 2 part you consume, the more salinity you are adding to your system. You can of course dilute your system with fresh water to compensate, but you are then diluting ALL of the elements in the system not just the Salinity.

The cool thing about All For Reef, and Calcium Formate in General, there's no Chloride. No Salinity issues :)
 

Lou Ekus

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I hope this clears up a few things...

You can absolutely dilute Carbocalxium into your ATO holding container. While it is true that the calcium formate will add some very small amount of organic carbon compounds, the amount is so small, that it does almost nothing for "carbon dosing". Especially if you are mixing up new ATO water every week or two, it just isn't enough time and nutrients to grow much at all, in that ATO holding tank. We have tons of people doing that with great results.

Of course, if you mix it full strength, the resulting solution is too concentrated to use as ATO water. It is over 30 times as concentrated as calcium hydroxide in relation to Ca.
 

Lou Ekus

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Talking about prices and improvements. There is a powder which should hold the same trace elements as K+ and A- combined: Tropic Marin Pro-Coral Mineral which is highly concentrated so better than buying the 2 bottles.

Haven’t figured out how this fits in the current recipe though.

I mixed Bio-Magnesium with CarboCalcium yesterday and worked fine. Though on the powder I noticed that there are also other parts on the Bio-Magnesium like some Calcium etc.
The Pro-Coral Mineral contains ALL 70 trace elements found in natural sea water. If you are looking to supplement for consumed trace elements, and not "balancing" needing ALL 70 trace elements, the Trace A and K are a much better choice.
 
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