DIY Tropic Marin All for Reef (One Part Dosing Solution)

pakmon22

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Hello, just ordered the DIY All-For-Reef kit from BRS. On their site it says the following:

5 Liter Kit:
  • 700 gram Carbo-Calcium
  • 1lb Bio-Magnesium
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace A
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace K
10 Liter Kit:
  • 1,400 gram Carbo-Calcium
  • 1lb Bio-Magnesium
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace A
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace K
However I notice the following in the directions:
Step 3: Add 12g Bio-Magnesium powder, stir continually.

This would imply that customers are receiving a large amount of Bio-Magnesium. What is the reason for this? Should I expect to be dosing additional bio-magnesium?
 

Lou Ekus

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Hello, just ordered the DIY All-For-Reef kit from BRS. On their site it says the following:

5 Liter Kit:
  • 700 gram Carbo-Calcium
  • 1lb Bio-Magnesium
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace A
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace K
10 Liter Kit:
  • 1,400 gram Carbo-Calcium
  • 1lb Bio-Magnesium
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace A
  • 1,000 mL Pro-Coral Trace K
However I notice the following in the directions:
Step 3: Add 12g Bio-Magnesium powder, stir continually.

This would imply that customers are receiving a large amount of Bio-Magnesium. What is the reason for this? Should I expect to be dosing additional bio-magnesium?
I'm not sure of exactly why BRS puts the one pound Bio-Magnesium in the kit. Not to say that some systems might not need more magnesium. But most will not. The AFR proportions usually work very well.
 

Hans-Werner

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It is correct that 1 lb Bio-Magnesium is a large amount in proportion to the demand of the other parts, but it is the smaller size we offer. The alternative is no magnesium at all.

The 1 lb can will be sufficient for ca. 37 liters of DIY All-For-Reef, so you need not to buy the kit every time. Also the 1000 ml of each K+ and A- Elements will be sufficient for 10 l and need not to be replaced every time after the 700 g can of Carbo-Calcium in the 5 liter kit is empty. :)
 

wshinji

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Pro-Coral Mineral does not contain magnesium but only minor and trace elements. For magnesium addition we have Bio-Magnesium and Bio-Magnesium Liquid.
Combining magnesium with minor and trace elements could cause conflicts when trace elements shall be added and magnesium is already high.
Hey Hans,
What do you recommend when I use Kalkwasser and want to supplement trace elements. I also have AWC so im thinking the Pro Coral Minerals is a better option? Also I like how it is in powder form and can mix with RODI myself.
A and K additives are in liquid form only? And they are preferred for tanks which have minimal WC to ensure certain trace elements dont build up over time, is that correct?
 

Hans-Werner

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Hey,
Sorry for my late Reply, I had a week off.
A- and K+ Elements are in liquid form only yet, since it is quite difficult to make a even mix of trace elements and keep it easy to dose in concentrated powder from. We managed it in the All-For-Reef Powder and the calcium salt keeps it easy to dose.
The A- and K+ Elements are designed to complement the calcium and alkalinity supply according to the coral's needs. For this purpose I recommend the A- and K+ Elements over Pro-Coral Mineral.
 

wshinji

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Hey,
Sorry for my late Reply, I had a week off.
A- and K+ Elements are in liquid form only yet, since it is quite difficult to make a even mix of trace elements and keep it easy to dose in concentrated powder from. We managed it in the All-For-Reef Powder and the calcium salt keeps it easy to dose.
The A- and K+ Elements are designed to complement the calcium and alkalinity supply according to the coral's needs. For this purpose I recommend the A- and K+ Elements over Pro-Coral Mineral.
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah I saw you have the all for reef powder which is awesome. Just too bad none of these popular items make it into the Australian market. Even the liquid a and K are in 200ml varieties only. What a joke.
 

FlyPenFly

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How well would this work with a trident auto adjustment feature?

I imagine since it takes time for alk readings to adjust with dosing, it is not ideal? Maybe if it was used in conjunction with a Kalk reactor it might work better? Use the kalk to fine tune adjustments while using All for Reef to supply the majority of the alk/ca/mg over time?

Watching some videos about this product, it seems like a safe maximum dose hasn't really been determined? I'll be trying this out in a somewhat high consumption tank.
 

Lou Ekus

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How well would this work with a trident auto adjustment feature?

I imagine since it takes time for alk readings to adjust with dosing, it is not ideal? Maybe if it was used in conjunction with a Kalk reactor it might work better? Use the kalk to fine tune adjustments while using All for Reef to supply the majority of the alk/ca/mg over time?
You are right that it is not optimum with the Trident. The other way, with kalkwasser etc. is a bit of a crap shoot. But I'm sure with some fine tuning you could get it to work.
 

FlyPenFly

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Ok sounds good. Moving over from the Aquaforest + kalk reactor system... this is my plan with alk being tested multiple times a day:

1. Start auto dosing 10L BRS All For Reef kit
2. Wait 2 days, scale down dosing AquaForest 3 part while increasing All4Reef
3. Scale down dosing of Kalk to half while increasing All4Reef
4. Use kalk dosing to fine tune kalk/ca levels

The goal is to be mostly reliant on All for Reef to do the bulk of maintaining levels while the kalk reactor is used to keep levels fine tuned.

I'll be dosing All for reef from a 5 liter container. Can I make 5 gallon batches of this recipe and store it for some time?
 

Lou Ekus

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Ok sounds good. Moving over from the Aquaforest + kalk reactor system... this is my plan with alk being tested multiple times a day:

1. Start auto dosing 10L BRS All For Reef kit
2. Wait 2 days, scale down dosing AquaForest 3 part while increasing All4Reef
3. Scale down dosing of Kalk to half while increasing All4Reef
4. Use kalk dosing to fine tune kalk/ca levels

The goal is to be mostly reliant on All for Reef to do the bulk of maintaining levels while the kalk reactor is used to keep levels fine tuned.

I'll be dosing All for reef from a 5 liter container. Can I make 5 gallon batches of this recipe and store it for some time?
Yes, as long as you keep it away from light. If it is exposed to light, you always risk a little growth of bacteria. Not that it would hurt anything. But it looks bad and makes it more difficult to use. But if you keep it away from light, you should be fine, as long as you are not holding it for many months on end. There is no real ultimate time frame. But "many months" meaning more than 3 or 4, is probably not a great idea.
 

BAUCE

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Im tired of waiting around for ESV to have stuff in stock so I think I'll go with BRS + Tropic Marin. I have a 150 gallon SPS tank and am currently using b-ionic 2 part with good results. If I just want to replace this I should just buy the BRS 2 DIY 2part + Pro Coral Trace 1 and 2? The All For Reef looks interesting but it doesn't seem very cost effective for a large tank.
@Lou Ekus @Hans-Werner
 

Lou Ekus

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Im tired of waiting around for ESV to have stuff in stock so I think I'll go with BRS + Tropic Marin. I have a 150 gallon SPS tank and am currently using b-ionic 2 part with good results. If I just want to replace this I should just buy the BRS 2 DIY 2part + Pro Coral Trace 1 and 2? The All For Reef looks interesting but it doesn't seem very cost effective for a large tank.
@Lou Ekus @Hans-Werner
I'm not sure what you mean by the "BRS 2 DIY 2part + Pro Coral Trace 1 and 2"? Are you also going to be using the TM Balling Part C in conjunction with the BRS Ca and alkalinity? I am thown off a little by you saying BRS 2 Part and then also saying DIY. Can you clarify please? Thanks.
 

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Trace 1 and 2 are added to part A and B of the BRS stuff right? I see you sell a package there with the addition of C for magnesium. I rarely have to dose magnesium so I was just going to mix K+ to BRS calcium and A- to alkalinity based on the directions on this page:

 

Hans-Werner

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am currently using b-ionic 2 part with good results. If I just want to replace this I should just buy the BRS 2 DIY 2part + Pro Coral Trace 1 and 2?
I have reassured on the ESV homepage that they state to have major, minor and trace elements in the b-ionic. Although it is not easy and not very effective to integrate sulfate in a two-part-system you most likely have added magnesium with the b-ionic. I think it is easier and better to go with the BRS package including BRS 2-part, Tropic Marin Original Balling Part C and K+ and A- Elements.

Even when magnesium consumption is low in a reef tank, the continuous supply of calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate or carbonate alone will have a diluting effect to other components like magnesium, potassium etc.. With Original Balling Part C you don't have to care about all these minor and trace components.
 

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I have reassured on the ESV homepage that they state to have major, minor and trace elements in the b-ionic. Although it is not easy and not very effective to integrate sulfate in a two-part-system you most likely have added magnesium with the b-ionic. I think it is easier and better to go with the BRS package including BRS 2-part, Tropic Marin Original Balling Part C and K+ and A- Elements.

Even when magnesium consumption is low in a reef tank, the continuous supply of calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate or carbonate alone will have a diluting effect to other components like magnesium, potassium etc.. With Original Balling Part C you don't have to care about all these minor and trace components.
Thanks for the reply Hans. Can Part C be dosed as needed instead of daily like parts a and b? I don't want to set up another auto doser right now but don't want to throw anything off.
 

Hans-Werner

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Yes, no problem the part C may be dosed weekly, every other week or with water changes. The fluctuations in magnesium and potassium concentration will remain small and may be neglected.
 

Koigula

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Trace 1 and 2 are added to part A and B of the BRS stuff right? I see you sell a package there with the addition of C for magnesium. I rarely have to dose magnesium so I was just going to mix K+ to BRS calcium and A- to alkalinity based on the directions on this page:

I have run this with good success. Tropic Marin Part C shows up with modest amounts in green (good range) from Triton ICP testing. The soda ash doser will plug sometimes at very tip of doser of 1/4" tubing over time. It takes 1 minute a week to rinse off since a known issue.

I am tempted at try the All in One recipe on a simpler mixed reef tank. I am assuming Carbocalcium is Calcium formate.

Is Bio Magnesium product Magnesium Formate?
 

Hans-Werner

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Is Bio Magnesium product Magnesium Formate?
Iggy,
Bio-Magnesium is not formate but a mix of magnesium salts with small amounts of other salts for example to keep alkalinity stable in most tanks.
 

Koigula

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That would make more sense to provide magnesium as a mix of sulfate and chloride salts primarily.

As a follow up, has anyone reported using a baseline amount of the Tropic Marin All for Reef recipe and continuing a 3 part dosing at a lower rate? Process is simple enough and I would be very curious to see if SPS responded to benefits of metabolizing formate/formic acid.

Are there threads or papers on this topic? A technical paper would be of interest as well. I use few additive in general but find Tropic Marin Bio-Actif interesting and very mild. Some is skimmed out gently.

Thanks in advance!
 

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