Anyone diy their own reef moonshine elements?

[USMA36]

Does anyone diy their reef moonshine elements? If so care to share your recipes? So far I have been able to diy fluoride and manganese at what I believe are the same concentrations in the RM bottles, I got both of those recipes here on r2r. I’d like to diy as many as possible to try and save some money. The flouride and manganese are substantially cheaper to diy. I have seen diy recipes posted on r2r for most of the elements but I’d like to make them in a way I can still use the rm dosing spreadsheet. My brain can’t math out how to determine the concentrations they use.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There are lots of DIY recipes here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-chemistry-archive.987116/

 

[KStatefan]

Use the data that is in the RMS calculator to enter into calculator that @Formulator posted awhile ago.

 

[KStatefan]

This is the post I was talking about

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/simple-dosing-calculator.1055073/

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I’m about to start making my own fluoride based on Randy’s instructions. I’m going through 2L a month, so, this should help offset some expense.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’m about to start making my own fluoride based on Randy’s instructions. I’m going through 2L a month, so, this should help offset some expense.

Did you notice any change when starting fluoride?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

So- good question. Background is I had 2 tanks, one was on MS for 1+ year with that system 5+ years old. Another system was juvenile and not on MS. In early Nov I consolidated systems into a much larger system. During the period when I stopped MS and worked towards where I am. I purchased imported SPS. In this batch there were 2 (one Millie / one tenuous) that were boring grey, the normal lottery scratch off ticket like you get when you buy a box of imports. During the move, I lost most of the tenuous, but I was able to save several 1/2 - 3/4 frags of it. I upped my lighting by an insane factor, I even double that metric regarding flow. The Millie has turned out to be the most gorgeous stick I have. Then, I started MS again. After 7 days on MS, that tenuous now has ver very noticeable growth and now also has a near metallic sparkle to it.

Did I not notice that tenuous until recently? Could it have been the light and flow? Truth be told, my entire display has “woken up with a tremendous amount of white tips everywhere”. Or, did MS give it an assist. I’ll have to see if when they go and write volume 2 of “the dark arts of mathematical deception” if there is a chapter in it about MS. Which, that is a great read. I’m going to post a couple display videos now from last night in my build thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok, thanks. :)

 

[USMA36]

Did you notice any change when starting fluoride?

I just started with your recipes for fluoride and Manganese, but I have been running moonshine elements for about 2 years. Does it do anything? Who knows. I started with a 90 gallon 6 years ago and upgraded to a 240 3 years ago. When I first started it was with dead rock. Took forever. Lost corals all the time. Couldn’t keep them alive. I tried every “magic potion” with no luck. Started with moonshine and now I can keep most things alive and many of them grow pretty fast. Is it from moonshine, because I stopped experimenting, or some other reason I have no idea. I do an ICP every 2 or 3 months and I’m trying to move to diy as many of the elements as possible. I hope it works. According to Andre it’s not recommended to diy because I don’t know what chemical formulations he’s using and something about bioavailability. I figured for the price it can’t hurt to try.

 

[USMA36]

This is the post I was talking about

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/simple-dosing-calculator.1055073/

Thank you. That helped a lot with figuring out the strength of the moonshine elements. Hopefully diy works and there’s not too much difference between forms of the elements I use from publicly available recipes and what MS uses.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

According to Andre it’s not recommended to diy because I don’t know what chemical formulations he’s using and something about bioavailability. I figured for the price it can’t hurt to try.

Sounds a bit self serving.

We know what basic inorganic forms are present in seawater, and can dose those. The DIY recipes are chosen to be suitable. We also know many of these change form in a variety of ways after being added, by binding organic matter or changing redox state. Neither he nor you as a user will know what forms are present in your tank.

Some of these may be more variable (e.g., iron, with two primary redox states and ready organic binding) while for some (e.g., fluoride) there's no variability in form or bioavailability.

 

[JGT]

A bit? Feeling generous this morning Randy? :)

 

[USMA36]

Sounds a bit self serving.

We know what basic inorganic forms are present in seawater, and can dose those. The DIY recipes are chosen to be suitable. We also know many of these change form in a variety of ways after being added, by binding organic matter or changing redox state. Neither he nor you as a user will know what forms are present in your tank.

Some of these may be more variable (e.g., iron, with two primary redox states and ready organic binding) while for some (e.g., fluoride) there's no variability in form or bioavailability.

Thank you as always I appreciate the help and guidance. I’m not a big fan of being told only use X with no real explanation as to why. What did it for me was realizing the cost. 500ml of fluoride costs 20.00 plus shipping. I can make 50 500ml bottles for 10.00 using your recipe mixed to ms strength. I’m all for making money but that’s an insane mark up.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I just started with your recipes for fluoride and Manganese, but I have been running moonshine elements for about 2 years. Does it do anything? Who knows. I started with a 90 gallon 6 years ago and upgraded to a 240 3 years ago. When I first started it was with dead rock. Took forever. Lost corals all the time. Couldn’t keep them alive. I tried every “magic potion” with no luck. Started with moonshine and now I can keep most things alive and many of them grow pretty fast. Is it from moonshine, because I stopped experimenting, or some other reason I have no idea. I do an ICP every 2 or 3 months and I’m trying to move to diy as many of the elements as possible. I hope it works. According to Andre it’s not recommended to diy because I don’t know what chemical formulations he’s using and something about bioavailability. I figured for the price it can’t hurt to try.

I surmise Andrea’s caution is heavily tied to cutting into a revenue model. I would say the same thing and would wonder why if he didn’t. I wouldn’t fault him one bit for trying to protect his market share. I give Andrea a ton of credit. He is super good at returning communications. I’m all for making a buck. I’m glad he is. But, for me, I’m going to mix the high velocity elements, which for now is fluoride. I’m only going to mix if I go through more that a bottle a month.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I surmise Andrea’s caution is heavily tied to cutting into a revenue model. I would say the same thing and would wonder why if he didn’t. I wouldn’t fault him one bit for trying to protect his market share. I give Andrea a ton of credit. He is super good at returning communications. I’m all for making a buck. I’m glad he is. But, for me, I’m going to mix the high velocity elements, which for now is fluoride. I’m only going to mix if I go through more that a bottle a month.

To be clear, I don't have any problem with folks protecting products how they can. After all, some I recommend only list ingredients and not amounts or chemical forms (e.g., AFR). I just don't like comments that are misleading as they try to do so.

If Tropic marine tells me: "We don't want to say how much vanadium is in AFR", that's fine with me. (hypothetical example)

But if Tropic Marine told me "Don't DIY vanadium because its too risky and complicated", then I would have a problem with that.

 

[djkms]

https://www.captiv8aquaculture.com/shop

is another option for elements we dose

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

To be clear, I don't have any problem with folks protecting products how they can. After all, some I recommend only list ingredients and not amounts or chemical forms (e.g., AFR). I just don't like comments that are misleading as they try to do so.

If Tropic marine tells me: "We don't want to say how much vanadium is in AFR", that's fine with me. (hypothetical example)

But if Tropic Marine told me "Don't DIY vanadium because its too risky and complicated", then I would have a problem with that.

Total agree. But more importantly, can you tell me what’s in Dukes mayonnaise and how to replicate it?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Ok, thanks. :)

@Randy Holmes-Farley have you found anyone in your quest regarding fluoride that has documented changes with the use of fluoride?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

@Randy Holmes-Farley have you found anyone in your quest regarding fluoride that has documented changes with the use of fluoride?

I started a thread and some folks claimed a clear benefit. But the actual effect seems to vary, which makes it less convincing, IMO.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/anyone-detect-clear-evidence-of-a-fluoride-effect.1070940/