Anyone Knowledgeable In Small Garden Ponds (Freshwater)?

[Fish Fan]

Hey all!

Posting here in The Lounge so I don't get kicked off the main forum :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

It's finally just starting to get nice in my area here on Earth1, and while I already have too many projects (aquariums and otherwise) I've been kind of thinking of a small, simple garden pond. Is anyone here knowledgeable with these?

I'm thinking about something inexpensive and very small that I can have on my deck, on the order of a +/- 50 gallon plastic storage tub to ideally a rectangular wooden framed pond about 4'x3'x2' deep. I'd like to have a variety of aquatic and bog plants, and ideally some fish, of course, like maybe some of the smaller goldfish or even just some guppies.

My question if there's other pond keepers here would be, if I build basically a rectangular wooden box, is it possible to line something like that with a typical pond liner and have it look reasonably neat? I can't see that working well for a rectangular shaped pond, especially if I have some "shelves" to put potted plants on. Seems like it would be too many 90 degree corners, unlike a liner forming to a more naturally shaped, in-ground pond.

Has anyone tried the paint on type pond liners? I know some use these to build indoor plywood tanks for both fresh and saltwater. They talk a good game, but I just don't know if I would trust them.

Any one have any thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

Here's a random internet pic showing something like what I'm thinking:

 

[smitten with ocean life]

ooooh that looks like fun!

 

[Fish Fan]

ooooh that looks like fun!

It does, right lol!

Like a mini Koi pond without the digging :-) Though I'm NOT going to try to keep Koi in a small space, I don't want the Koi police tracking me down.....

 

[Fish Fan]

Bump!

I'm still thinking about this, would anyone here have any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks very much!

 

[Fish Fan]

I live in upstate New York, and this spring has been horrible. Nothing but rain and cold temps, and I've done pretty much nothing outside this season.

But we've had a few nice days recently, and here's what I came up with for a small, inexpensive garden pond. I thought about A LOT of ways to do this, but since I had on hand much of the 2x6 material, I decided this would be the easiest and cheapest way to go. If this does well, then I'll invest more into this project, possibly a "real" in-ground pond.

This is nothing more than a square of 2x6's, on top of our deck, with the cheapest vinyl liner I could buy from the big orange online bookstore. I had serious doubts about how to get the vinyl liner in to my square, box-shaped "pond", but in the end I think it worked out nicely. Not a lot of huge wrinkles as I was expecting

I don't know if this was genius, or ignorance, or somewhere in between, but I decided to line my "pond" with 1/2" foam board insulation. I thought it would give the liner some buffer incase of sharp edges on the wood, or bad joints, or who know's what. We'll see if this was a good idea or not.

I had planned on painting the top rain to match the deck, but my wife thinks it looks good the way it is.

What do you guys think??

 

[Fish Fan]

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Looks like we need to go ahead with our freshwater forum!

 

[Fish Fan]

Looks like we need to go ahead with our freshwater forum!

I think many of us would appreciate that, but I certainly understand if you wouldn't want to do that

 

[UncommonSense]

I live in upstate New York, and this spring has been horrible. Nothing but rain and cold temps, and I've done pretty much nothing outside this season.

But we've had a few nice days recently, and here's what I came up with for a small, inexpensive garden pond. I thought about A LOT of ways to do this, but since I had on hand much of the 2x6 material, I decided this would be the easiest and cheapest way to go. If this does well, then I'll invest more into this project, possibly a "real" in-ground pond.

This is nothing more than a square of 2x6's, on top of our deck, with the cheapest vinyl liner I could buy from the big orange online bookstore. I had serious doubts about how to get the vinyl liner in to my square, box-shaped "pond", but in the end I think it worked out nicely. Not a lot of huge wrinkles as I was expecting

I don't know if this was genius, or ignorance, or somewhere in between, but I decided to line my "pond" with 1/2" foam board insulation. I thought it would give the liner some buffer incase of sharp edges on the wood, or bad joints, or who know's what. We'll see if this was a good idea or not.

I had planned on painting the top rain to match the deck, but my wife thinks it looks good the way it is.

What do you guys think??

I love this design!

What are your stocking plans? My outdoor hydroculture trays quickly got partially converted into housing for turtles, mosquitofish, with a tray left for aquaponic cultivation!

Looks like we need to go ahead with our freshwater forum!

This is excellent news! It will certainly help to bring more new hobbyists into the fold!

 

[Fish Fan]

I love this design!

What are your stocking plans? My outdoor hydroculture trays quickly got partially converted into housing for turtles, mosquitofish, with a tray left for aquaponic cultivation!



This is excellent news! It will certainly help to bring more new hobbyists into the fold!

I had thought about something like mosquito fish or rice fish, but in the end I just added a few simple goldfish from the local pet store.

I have had a minor setback, I added some bog type plants by using a fabric grow bag and I read that you can plant water plants in top soil with some Osmocote slow release fertilizer. This indeed seems to be working for the plants, but it made the water much more murky than I had hoped. I can only see the goldfish if they are in the top 8" or so a water, but there's still in there I don't know if I should just let it go longer and hope it clears on it's own, or if I should try a flocculent (that binds little particles into larger particles that are easier for the filter to remove), or if I should try a water change.

Here's what it looks like tonight:


I added some Creeping Jenny, a Pickerel Rush (I believe) and some Irises on the left:


And some more Irises and a Corkscrew Rush on the right. The cork screw plant kind of reminded me of Corkscrew Valisnaria:


There is also a third grow bag full of top soil that's submerged. I shove a couple water Lilly bulbs in that pot, but I don't have a whole lot of hope for them. They are Imagitarium brand from PetCo, and when I opened the package they were moldy. But all this soil has now made the water look like...... a pond lol! But I preferred the clearer water, I have gravel and rocks and things that I can't see anymore. You can barely see the fish!

 

[UncommonSense]

I don't know if I should just let it go longer and hope it clears on it's own, or if I should try a flocculent (that binds little particles into larger particles that are easier for the filter to remove), or if I should try a water change.

Soil is a interesting idea, but typically we go without in hydro culture as it tends to just gunk up the system fast… I find that anything over around 3/4-1” of detritus buildup at the bottom starts to go anaerobic!

Best practice with these is to just leave them be for the most part… I have found that I actually had my worst luck when I did constant cleaning and water changes… — the system becomes susceptible to plant pathogens! (Google “pythium” if curious as an example)

I’d say leave the soil in for now and let the water clarify naturally for a day or two… if you can’t get it to clarify by then, add the flocculent sparingly, then siphon the detritus! — the soil will work to get a head start on soluble minerals in the system though!

I had thought about something like mosquito fish or rice fish, but in the end I just added a few simple goldfish from the local pet store.

I would recommend tossing in a dozen or so mosquitofish if your LFS can get them in, or you can tack them onto another livestock vendor shipment! — I started with seven a decade-ish ago, and have had probably thousands in my system since then… they reproduce like lemmings!

Mosquitofish are actually the primary reason I haven’t been bit by a mosquito while on my property in many years too! — they decimate the local mosquito population, which is looking for standing water! — I let my population self-regulate and do nothing for them maintenance-wise!



The plants look great, regardless! Just give your system a few months to get through the uglies, trying not to mess with it too much as the yo-yo effect settles down with water chemistry! — It should be quite a lot of fun in the long run!

 

[Fish Fan]

Soil is a interesting idea, but typically we go without in hydro culture as it tends to just gunk up the system fast… I find that anything over around 3/4-1” of detritus buildup at the bottom starts to go anaerobic!

Best practice with these is to just leave them be for the most part… I have found that I actually had my worst luck when I did constant cleaning and water changes… — the system becomes susceptible to plant pathogens! (Google “pythium” if curious as an example)

I’d say leave the soil in for now and let the water clarify naturally for a day or two… if you can’t get it to clarify by then, add the flocculent sparingly, then siphon the detritus! — the soil will work to get a head start on soluble minerals in the system though!


I would recommend tossing in a dozen or so mosquitofish if your LFS can get them in, or you can tack them onto another livestock vendor shipment! — I started with seven a decade-ish ago, and have had probably thousands in my system since then… they reproduce like lemmings!

Mosquitofish are actually the primary reason I haven’t been bit by a mosquito while on my property in many years too! — they decimate the local mosquito population, which is looking for standing water! — I let my population self-regulate and do nothing for them maintenance-wise!



The plants look great, regardless! Just give your system a few months to get through the uglies, trying not to mess with it too much as the yo-yo effect settles down with water chemistry! — It should be quite a lot of fun in the long run!

Thank you for your reply!

I know I was trying to cheap out going with the top soil. I also read some use regular clay cat litter, maybe that would have been cleaner. I'll leave it and see how it does. The plants are looking good since uppotting them.

I'll consider some other fish. I'd have to order mosquito fish online, I don't even have a freshwater shop that would be able to order them near me, just Petco and PetSmart.

 

[UncommonSense]

Thank you for your reply!

I know I was trying to cheap out going with the top soil. I also read some use regular clay cat litter, maybe that would have been cleaner. I'll leave it and see how it does. The plants are looking good since uppotting them.

I'll consider some other fish. I'd have to order mosquito fish online, I don't even have a freshwater shop that would be able to order them near me, just Petco and PetSmart.

Hey, there is a lot more leeway for budget solutions in aquaponics/ponds!

I’ve found that a reliable long-term solution for plant “substrate” is the “rock wool” material commonly used in hydroponic cultivation! — it’s composed from basalt, which is heated to melting and spun (a bit like cotton candy) into relatively inert fiber blocks! — Pumice rubble is also a good choice for a rooting substrate if put in a mesh pot or similar!)

In a dedicated deep water plant culture system, closed cell foam rafts are often used as the plants support! This can be adapted in various ways for various applications; such as a static plant support plate made of wood or other materials! — I can share photos of that in my system next weekend when I get back from traveling!

Regarding mosquitofish; I’m able to get them delivered for free (every spring; for genetic diversification) in central california via my counties “mosquito control board”… — I have no clue if anything like that exists where you live, but it could be worth looking into!


So far, so good; it’s looking fantastic! — Let me know if you have any further questions about your system, its livestock, or future upgrades! I’ve been playing with outdoor freshwater culture systems both personally and professionally for a good while now!

 

[Fish Fan]

Hey, there is a lot more leeway for budget solutions in aquaponics/ponds!

I’ve found that a reliable long-term solution for plant “substrate” is the “rock wool” material commonly used in hydroponic cultivation! — it’s composed from basalt, which is heated to melting and spun (a bit like cotton candy) into relatively inert fiber blocks! — Pumice rubble is also a good choice for a rooting substrate if put in a mesh pot or similar!)

In a dedicated deep water plant culture system, closed cell foam rafts are often used as the plants support! This can be adapted in various ways for various applications; such as a static plant support plate made of wood or other materials! — I can share photos of that in my system next weekend when I get back from traveling!

Regarding mosquitofish; I’m able to get them delivered for free (every spring; for genetic diversification) in central california via my counties “mosquito control board”… — I have no clue if anything like that exists where you live, but it could be worth looking into!


So far, so good; it’s looking fantastic! — Let me know if you have any further questions about your system, its livestock, or future upgrades! I’ve been playing with outdoor freshwater culture systems both personally and professionally for a good while now!

Thank you for your help here!

I have never heard of a mosquito control board around here

I'm going to leave it for now and hope it settles out some. I can see the fish, no sign they are stressing. I think they are learning to come up to the top front when I walk on the deck, they seem to all come up at once for the food.

Thanks again!

 

[56longroof]

Thank you for your reply!

I know I was trying to cheap out going with the top soil. I also read some use regular clay cat litter, maybe that would have been cleaner. I'll leave it and see how it does. The plants are looking good since uppotting them.

I'll consider some other fish. I'd have to order mosquito fish online, I don't even have a freshwater shop that would be able to order them near me, just Petco and PetSmart.

Soil is a popular substrate for planted tanks. You have to cap it off with gravel or sand so it doesn't cloud the water.

 

[UncommonSense]

Soil is a popular substrate for planted tanks. You have to cap it off with gravel or sand so it doesn't cloud the water.

One of the tricks with ponds/aquaponic systems is the hardy livestock! — They can take such high concentrations of nutrients in the system that you can rely completely on the water itself to provide nutrition, and use artificial support for typically terrestrial plants!

 

[56longroof]

One of the tricks with ponds/aquaponic systems is the hardy livestock! — They can take such high concentrations of nutrients in the system that you can rely completely on the water itself to provide nutrition, and use artificial support for typically terrestrial plants!

What does this have to do with my post?

 

[UncommonSense]

What does this have to do with my post?

It clarifies that planted tanks and ponds/aquaponic systems typically employ different means of plant support, and nutrient availability.

 

[UncommonSense]

with the cheapest vinyl liner I could buy from the big orange online bookstore.

Bump for an update, and to share some buying advice!

I’m currently working on a 8x10 turtle pond with a remote aquaponic plant cultivation bed for a friend… that meant I had to dive DEEP into the world of pond liners…

If you ever run into troubles with your existing liner; check this one out! — it’s the thickest Reinforced Polyethylene ([RPE] exponentially stronger, and lighter!) liner I could find for residential use that also has a UV resistant coating! (It was also delivered <48hrs from placing the order!)

https://www.justliners.com/Merchant...5c80874a&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RPEL30-1212

 

[Fish Fan]

Bump for an update, and to share some buying advice!

I’m currently working on a 8x10 turtle pond with a remote aquaponic plant cultivation bed for a friend… that meant I had to dive DEEP into the world of pond liners…

If you ever run into troubles with your existing liner; check this one out! — it’s the thickest Reinforced Polyethylene ([RPE] exponentially stronger, and lighter!) liner I could find for residential use that also has a UV resistant coating! (It was also delivered <48hrs from placing the order!)

https://www.justliners.com/Merchant...5c80874a&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RPEL30-1212

Awesome, thank you for the tip!

It's going well, still murky water from the top soil I used, but the fish don't seem to mind lol! Water Lettuce and Water Hyacinth on the surface are growing like crazy. The perennials in the pots are doing well too, I'll be excited to see how they look next year, I expect them to come back much stronger and with more blooms:


I've been meaning to paint that top rail too lol!!

And then just today I checked and I've got a little blue flower on my Pickerel Rush (I believe it's called), and I didn't even know that plant flowered lol!


Thanks for your reply and interest here!