Thank you. I was lost for a minute being kinda out of the loop on tech now adays, I didnt get the "IoTa". This is a perfect explanation. Thank you and I hope this catches on with all of our manufacturers.
Apex 2016 - "IOTA" connectivity - is the industry on board?
- Thread starter Kyl
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Thank you. I was lost for a minute being kinda out of the loop on tech now adays, I didnt get the "IoTa". This is a perfect explanation. Thank you and I hope this catches on with all of our manufacturers.
Did you check out the IoTa guide? I suggest you head over to our forum to powwow with other users to see how they might help you or just fire off a support ticket from our web site.
@Kyl Interesting topic as a whole. I don't have much to offer on the Iot-Aquariums, but I have seen a few of these types of Protocol platform/standards implemented. Nema 2000/ Marine Electronics, Device net and Control net and now enet/ip is now the standard for Industrial controls. This hobby electronics market is a drop in the ocean compared to big industry. The FCC has been trying to roll up all the small electronics transmissions for a while, I expect something down the road. Great topic, following
Kyl
And how does it feel like, to wake up in the sun
Thanks @siggy . The OP topic was mostly born of frustration that yet again it seemed another major piece of marketing in this industry was resulting in zilch. We all see what goes on at RAP / MACNA gatherings every year, some vendors get up there and make all sorts of claims then we sit back and hope those claims will materialise. To credit of AI / Neptune, that has resulted in the Hydra / Prime HD lines gaining Apex support, and from what I've seen locally it's very well done! They do deserve a lot of praise for this functionality, and I've somewhat hoped it will motivate, or ultimately shame some other industry players to get moving as well.
Now the next on the list is Maxspect which seems to be progressing very slowly once again, but I do know it's coming. The other vendors? We had the chance for someone in a Kessil 360X thread to talk to the guys at the booth this past MACNA and apparently something is finally cooking for AP700 <> Apex support, but again, not a word in writing or posted anywhere officially. Granted Neptune never stated anything about the Kessil Wifi unit, and pen to paper neither has Kessil in official marketing or publication. That said, Kessil were on show floors in 2015 with staff talking Apex support post release, so I am continuing to beat on this issue because I want to see progress instead of just promises. Now you have another new release (360x), with another new control scheme that will be working with another wifi implementation "sometime" in 2019. You can see where it seems to be going.
This thread sort of has two slants to it, one in general that the industry as a whole is too small to continue allowing manufacturers to promise A and deliver B without a good explanation, silence doesn't cut it. Second, specifically focused on the IOTA support as in my opinion it is a key piece of the "2016" marketing to what the platform has traditionally done - allow control of third party devices via some means. Currently that control has extended to one product line, so to speak. Only @Terence can give us word at what they're working on, but still with the other industry players, there is crickets. Again, given the Apex is the easily most marketing friendly controller or what most think of when hearing aquarium controller, you think other companies would love to be able to throw on their marketing 'Apex control ready'. Instead, it's become "download our app on the iOS / Google Play store" and pray we keep it updated through the life of your equipment.
Now the next on the list is Maxspect which seems to be progressing very slowly once again, but I do know it's coming. The other vendors? We had the chance for someone in a Kessil 360X thread to talk to the guys at the booth this past MACNA and apparently something is finally cooking for AP700 <> Apex support, but again, not a word in writing or posted anywhere officially. Granted Neptune never stated anything about the Kessil Wifi unit, and pen to paper neither has Kessil in official marketing or publication. That said, Kessil were on show floors in 2015 with staff talking Apex support post release, so I am continuing to beat on this issue because I want to see progress instead of just promises. Now you have another new release (360x), with another new control scheme that will be working with another wifi implementation "sometime" in 2019. You can see where it seems to be going.
This thread sort of has two slants to it, one in general that the industry as a whole is too small to continue allowing manufacturers to promise A and deliver B without a good explanation, silence doesn't cut it. Second, specifically focused on the IOTA support as in my opinion it is a key piece of the "2016" marketing to what the platform has traditionally done - allow control of third party devices via some means. Currently that control has extended to one product line, so to speak. Only @Terence can give us word at what they're working on, but still with the other industry players, there is crickets. Again, given the Apex is the easily most marketing friendly controller or what most think of when hearing aquarium controller, you think other companies would love to be able to throw on their marketing 'Apex control ready'. Instead, it's become "download our app on the iOS / Google Play store" and pray we keep it updated through the life of your equipment.
Stephen Olner
Community Member
As a developer who works for a fortune 100 company I would love to know what the proprietary code and documentation is that apex are distributing to manufactures so that I could develop my own iota devices. Will apex release documentation on this protocol. One wonders why one cannot just simply call the api of the iot device from the apex. . In my case I’m looking to switch a relay on and off via WiFi that will control my T5 lights without having to use the energy bar as my light circuit is on a separate breaker
Stephen Olner
Community Member
Never hurts to ask
I don't understand why Neptune won't publish this API. It seems like a no brainer and little-to-no effort on their part. When they refuse to comment on the ask in forums like R2F (and their own community forums), it makes me feel like their intentions are to force a closed system so they can benefit from licensing/royalty for each integrated product. 0-10v ports and IO breakout are standardized and open. Why not IOT sockets?
I guess it's time to pull out Wireshark.
mrrtheory
Community Member
That is exactly what they want to do. They don't even come out with module's anymore really. I need an automation solution from them not an "ecosystem". Nearly every manufacturer that I have discussed Neptune with has stated in some semblance that they are difficult to work with and don't leave enough meat on bone to make it even worth while and it shows. Are there any lights that are currently being produced that work with the APEX not controlled through a basic 0-10v? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe there are. The company took a turn for the worse when they started painting everything orange and let the marking director run the show. I hope they get it together or someone else releases a controller that can actually control stuff.
U
User1
Guest
Not really their fault. Every manufacture is creating their own app, dongle, or other do hicky to control their product. No one wants to support anyone and there are not standards. Welcome to 1984 and the PC wars.
mrrtheory
Community Member
I'm definitely not an expert here nor do I want to be a troll so I hope its not taken that way but I hate to see whats going on. I will say that the industry here is tiny, we are talking nano scale compared to the business models they are trying to imitate, and I dont see it translating. I feel like they are going to innovate or fail together. Not to mention, the toliet paper budget at IBM, Google or Apples main office alone vastly exceeds the entire operating budget of most if not all of the companies in this industry. How long before a major player sweeps in and cleans house, Phillips is already making lights. At the very least a single updated open standard would be nice, 0-10v feels floppy disc old and I can make an Arduino or raspberry-pi project in a weekend that does most of that. The way things are going the phone will be the new controller. It's very possible in a few years the Apex is unnecessary. I've had one on an aquarium or another for over 10 years. Thats sad when I see the potential.
Let me chime in here since it has been a while. Maybe tamp down some speculation. We have, in the past, created one-off solutions for interconnectivity for "big brands" only to later be burnt by them changing the standards, not including certain hardware, not communicating and cooperatiing well, etc. The latest evidence of this is the WXM module. We were not asked if we wanted to be on board with a new way to interconnect. First it was the Vectra. Fine. Then it was the Versa - OK, it is a new class of product. But then, when the new Radion came out, well it basically left our customers behind and no upgrade path for them with their existing WXM. Now, the MP40 are coming with firmware that is not compatible with the WXM. Customers that want to utilize their Apex and WXM are being forced to revert to older firmware on their MP40 and many trying to do so, have bricked their pump controllers.
IoTa was our answer to helping move the conversation forward. At the time of its inception, we had no idea how rudimentary the software development capabilities were with some manufacturers while at the same time astonished at how many others did not see the value. We have had a couple come on board thus far.
Fast forward to today and we have some key industry players working right now on integrating IoTa into their lights and pumps.
We have been called a "walled garden" by certain writers in the past, but in fact, our platform is the only one that is actively working to integrate with other manufacturers. We will have our own products, for instance the COR, that give a superset of capabilities and functionality over pumps that work over IoTa, yes, but we we at least have a functioning way to integrate, over the network, with non-native Apex products.
Keep a lookout for these new IoTa-capable products as they are announced in the not too distant future.
IoTa was our answer to helping move the conversation forward. At the time of its inception, we had no idea how rudimentary the software development capabilities were with some manufacturers while at the same time astonished at how many others did not see the value. We have had a couple come on board thus far.
Fast forward to today and we have some key industry players working right now on integrating IoTa into their lights and pumps.
We have been called a "walled garden" by certain writers in the past, but in fact, our platform is the only one that is actively working to integrate with other manufacturers. We will have our own products, for instance the COR, that give a superset of capabilities and functionality over pumps that work over IoTa, yes, but we we at least have a functioning way to integrate, over the network, with non-native Apex products.
Keep a lookout for these new IoTa-capable products as they are announced in the not too distant future.
Kyl
And how does it feel like, to wake up in the sun
There's two realms of thought on how to respond to something like that after nearly three years of originally making this thread. Re-state details in many of the reply summations and ask what, if anything has changed since then, or simply wish luck to those that remain on the platform.
Good luck to my fellow hobbyists.
Good luck to my fellow hobbyists.
mrrtheory
Community Member
I know that Reef Breeders wanted to get in on the IoTa with the Apex. For whatever reason, I think they had some trouble getting the information that they needed to get started. I know quite a few people looking at them as a possible future option because of another such company's decision to "upgrade" to local only connectivity, including removal of all support for 3rd party controllers. Kind of like upgrading from powered flight to horse-drawn carriage, but I digress. You might reach out to them if you were not made aware of their previous efforts.
92Miata
Valuable Member
You're never going to "move the conversation forward" if nobody knows what the actual protocol is. IoT has come too far in the last couple of years, and too many of the proprietary solutions have failed and left us with useless devices. Open standards means more device support, and more device support means a more valuable controller.
Its simply too risky at this point to rely on some undocumented non-standard protocol that can't be re-implemented if a vendor goes out of business.
IoT,A isn't going to fix the issue you mentioned with WXM if its proprietary - its going to make it happen more often.
Its simply too risky at this point to rely on some undocumented non-standard protocol that can't be re-implemented if a vendor goes out of business.
IoT,A isn't going to fix the issue you mentioned with WXM if its proprietary - its going to make it happen more often.
IMO simple steps can move you forward: Document and publish an open REST standard utilizing your own unique URL base path. If hardware manufacturers choose not to integrate with the Apex standard by publishing compatible APIs that the Apex can issue GET and POST calls to, then they can be blamed without argument. There's no doubt in my mind, with the volume of highly technically skilled members of this community that use your products, many would be more than willing to contribute their personal time and decades of experience to overcome these challenges with much less cost to Neptune Systems vs your team working in a vacuum collaborating with hardware manufacturers. I strongly feel the community should be involved in defining the standard -- we use your products, not the manufacturers.
Neptune can still capitalize in a world like this. Manufacturers will have to pay license and renewal fees if they want to go through your ISV certification process so they can legally use your "Apex Certified" logo. This will help you recover costs during your release cycles. If they don't want to pay the license fees, they cannot be called "Apex Certified" and there's no guarantee to the consumer that the gear will work properly with the Apex now or in future releases.
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