Are antibiotics a tool in reefing?

[gbroadbridge]

We built this hobby on bacteria.

Live rock.
Bottled bacteria.
PNS bacteria.
Probiotics.
Carbon dosing.
Microbiome stability.

We dose bacteria.
We feed bacteria.
We worship bacteria.

But what happens when bacteria turns against us?

Here’s what reefers don’t like to talk about:

Not all bacteria are good.

Organic carbon doesn’t just feed “helpful” bacteria — it feeds everything.

The more organics you add, the more food you give to whatever’s waiting — even the bacteria you don’t want.

Carbon dosing feeds them.
Ozone breaking down organics feeds them.

And let’s be honest — we’re not just feeding bacteria in this hobby.

We’re adding them.

Bottle after bottle. Strain after strain.
Dumping them in and hoping for the best.

And the truth is — we don’t even know which strains we’re adding.

Nobody’s testing them.
Nobody’s identifying them.

We’ve built entire reef systems on bacteria we can’t even name.


Bacteria isn’t always your ally.
Sometimes it’s the killer.

So what do we do?

We dip corals.
We frag them.
We increase flow.
We wait.
We pray.
We watch them slough away.

But treat them?
Use antibiotics?

Suddenly you’re a villain.

People don’t like dosing antibiotics in reef tanks.
People don’t like treating anemones.
People don’t like using Chemiclean for Cyano.

And I have to ask —

Why?

When did this hobby become more about feeling righteous than actually saving what‘s dying?

We tell ourselves this hobby is about keeping corals alive.

But when push comes to shove, some of us would rather let them waste away than question our own dogma.

The problem is that there are only a certain number of antibiotics available to treat human disease and they should only be dispensed when there is a proven case for their use for that specific pathogen.

In most of the world, antibiotics are restricted medications for that very reason.

Every year more and more bacterial strains are becoming resistant to the limited number of available remedies, which is already causing untreatable infections resulting in people dying who could previously have been saved.

There is usually no problem using a specific treatment for a diagnosed infection, however once you allow untrained hobbyists to dump bottle after bottle and capsule after capsule into a tank, the risk is that some of those bugs (perhaps not the one you are attempting to treat), could cause an infection that may be untreatable.

If it comes to a choice between saving a coral or potentially saving a human, it's no longer dogma.

 

[Miami Reef]

I really appreciate everyone sharing their insights so far. I think this discussion highlights how many different philosophies exist in reefing when it comes to bacteria management and intervention.


Antibiotic resistance is 100% real, and it’s absolutely something to respect.

However, looking at where resistance is actually coming from — it’s not reef tanks.

It’s large-scale agriculture using antibiotics preventively in livestock, overprescription in human medicine, and improper disposal in wastewater systems.

A reefer using a few milligrams in a closed tank to try to save a dying coral is not on the same level.

Most of us aren’t dumping antibiotics recklessly; we’re using them sparingly, when we’ve run out of other options.

That’s a very different picture from “fueling superbugs.”

 

[pooootiqe]

With how much absorption /degradation methods there are in reefing (UV, ozone, GAC, purigen, zeolite etc.) I think a responsible reefer should be able to minimize excessive antibiotic disposal.

The dosage is a bigger problem imo. Overdosing is bad cause it will certainly disrupt the microbiome (just like orally taken antibiotics disrupt gut commensals) but under dosing could arguably be worse by making drug resistant strains - it’s a scary thought to have drug-resistant BJD floating around in the market…

 

[Miami Reef]

That’s very interesting you bring up those degradation methods.

We use UV knowing it kills more than just bad bacteria.
We dose peroxide knowing it oxidizes life indiscriminately.

Antibiotics aren’t magic — and they’re definitely not the first solution for every problem.

But in certain cases, in controlled settings, with isolated livestock that aren’t getting better despite all the conventional methods?

What about the anemones that would almost never make it without those crucial antibiotic treatments?

I personally don’t see it as reckless — I see it as another difficult judgment call this hobby is full of.

 

[pooootiqe]

That’s very interesting you bring up those degradation methods.

We use UV knowing it kills more than just bad bacteria.
We dose peroxide knowing it oxidizes life indiscriminately.

Antibiotics aren’t magic — and they’re definitely not the first solution for every problem.

But in certain cases, in controlled settings, with isolated livestock that aren’t getting better despite all the conventional methods?

What about the anemones that would almost never make it without those crucial antibiotic treatments?

I personally don’t see it as reckless — I see it as another difficult judgment call this hobby is full of.

Yes, but you won’t be seeing UV-resistant bacteria anytime soon… ;) (maybe on Mars tho)

At the end of the day, I don’t think first-line clinical and veterinary antibiotics should be freely available to the average aquarist. Maybe when identification, correct dosage, treatment period, and proper disposal could be determined, some older generation ones could be properly applied? For the people in desperation, I doubt anyone can hold them back anyways :grinning-face-with-sweat:

 

[gbroadbridge]

That’s very interesting you bring up those degradation methods.

We use UV knowing it kills more than just bad bacteria.
We dose peroxide knowing it oxidizes life indiscriminately.

Antibiotics aren’t magic — and they’re definitely not the first solution for every problem.

But in certain cases, in controlled settings, with isolated livestock that aren’t getting better despite all the conventional methods?

What about the anemones that would almost never make it without those crucial antibiotic treatments?

I personally don’t see it as reckless — I see it as another difficult judgment call this hobby is full of.

There is nothing wrong with appropriate use of antibiotics.

If a qualified person has determined the type of bacteria, and prescribed an antibiotic dosage regimen that targets that pathogen all is good.

Problems arise with the indiscriminate use of those drugs by folks who just use a scattergun approach of hitting the whole tank with a slew of antibiotics hoping that something will work.

Which is pretty much how they're used in the USA.

As I said in my earlier post, in many countries antibiotics can only be prescribed by a doctor or a vet - they are not available off the shelf in an LFS.

 

[pooootiqe]

Come to think of it, I wonder how fluoconazole (reef flux) is so widely available, pretty sure it’s still in clinical use to treat yeast infections. I almost made the deal with the devil when there was feathery algae starting to pop up in my tank lol (didn’t come back after brushing it off the rocks fortunately)

 

[Miami Reef]

There is nothing wrong with appropriate use of antibiotics.

If a qualified person has determined the type of bacteria, and prescribed an antibiotic dosage regimen that targets that pathogen all is good.

Bacterial cultures aren’t always taken prior to prescribing.

Empirical treatment, where symptoms suggest a likely infection and doctors treat based on probability is commonplace.

Broad spectrum antibiotics are often used without knowing the exact strain.

The “watch and see if it improves” is a real medical approach.

You’re not against it, per se, but you set the bar so high no reefer, nor most doctors, can even use it.

 

[Big E]

We built this hobby on bacteria.

Live rock.
Bottled bacteria.
PNS bacteria.
Probiotics.
Carbon dosing.
Microbiome stability.

We dose bacteria.
We feed bacteria.
We worship bacteria.

But what happens when bacteria turns against us?

Here’s what reefers don’t like to talk about:

Not all bacteria are good.

Organic carbon doesn’t just feed “helpful” bacteria — it feeds everything.

The more organics you add, the more food you give to whatever’s waiting — even the bacteria you don’t want.

Carbon dosing feeds them.
Ozone breaking down organics feeds them.

And let’s be honest — we’re not just feeding bacteria in this hobby.

We’re adding them.

Bottle after bottle. Strain after strain.
Dumping them in and hoping for the best.

And the truth is — we don’t even know which strains we’re adding.

Nobody’s testing them.
Nobody’s identifying them.

We’ve built entire reef systems on bacteria we can’t even name.


Bacteria isn’t always your ally.
Sometimes it’s the killer.

So what do we do?

We dip corals.
We frag them.
We increase flow.
We wait.
We pray.
We watch them slough away.

But treat them?
Use antibiotics?

Suddenly you’re a villain.

People don’t like dosing antibiotics in reef tanks.
People don’t like treating anemones.
People don’t like using Chemiclean for Cyano.

And I have to ask —

Why?

When did this hobby become more about feeling righteous than actually saving what‘s dying?

We tell ourselves this hobby is about keeping corals alive.

But when push comes to shove, some of us would rather let them waste away than question our own dogma.

This why I'm done with dosing bacteria, aminos, carbon dosing and corals foods ..............also any kinds of mystery products.

Every time people have a problem with corals dying and they're dosing a myriad of products they are told to stop dosing and do some water changes to get everything back in line. Keep it simple, reduce variables, and focus on solid fundamentals and enjoy the tank.

I do dose chemicals when needed, interceptor(for acro bugs) and Fluco for bryopsis are a few examples that don't seem to have a harmful effect long term.

I will dip corals outside the tank if need be.

 

[Miami Reef]

Every time people have a problem with corals dying and they're dosing a myriad of products they are told to stop dosing and do some water changes to get everything back in line. Keep it simple, reduce variables, and focus on solid fundamentals and enjoy the tank.

Thanks for chiming in.

I completely agree. I think it’s best to start with a bare tank (additive wise) and add one product at a time as needed. We can catch and isolate variables much easier.

The basic Alk, Ca, Mag are excluded; those are the basic necessities.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

He found Zeobak contained Step and Staph

That jerk telegraham found staph, not strep. That was a database error acknowledged by AquaBiomics. Strep is crossed out for a reason.

BTW, I'm sending out the new ProBio, another Special Blend, and Brightwell's Purple today.

https://humble.fish/community/threads/bottled-bacteria-results-main-thread.20944/

 

[Pico_Reefs]

I dip my euphyllia quite often. I find that a hydrogen/iodine+restor dip fixes most, but I won't hesitate to do a KFC for 12 to 24 hrs.

I have found that longer dips work better for me, even when doing hydrogen/iodine+restor I dip for a minimum of 12 hrs typically over the dark cycle.

I am a relatively new reefer, so I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I have seen good growth in my Euphyllia. Most are less than a year old and were started with a single head, now some have 10 heads with great extension.

I also never dose in my display. I have a 2-gal tank that I treat in. I would never put anything like that into my display.

 

[Pistondog]

I get the concern, but reefers using microgram doses in closed systems aren’t significantly driving antibiotic resistance — agriculture and human overuse are.

Corals are living animals, and their health matters too.

If we waited for perfect knowledge before treating anything, we wouldn’t have medicine, reef tanks, or even basic husbandry practice IMO.

Curious if anyone here has successfully beaten STN or BJD without antibiotics. What worked for you?

Ive used witch hazel. Stn stopped, maybe coincidentally.
Thread 'Treatment for rtn with witch hazel' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-for-rtn-with-witch-hazel.686242/

 

[pooootiqe]

I've tried Witch hazel during RTN as well per Andre's written instructions, unfortunately didn't help. There seems to be quite a few successful stories though.

 

[Miami Reef]

It’s very hit-or-miss.

I think my tank had a pathogenic bacteria imbalance because what used to be me carbon dosing anything changed into any amount causing STN.

When I stopped it, things got better, but I always try it again, thinking it wasn’t the carbon dosing that caused the issues.

When I used ozone after a long time, at a much lower dose and saw STN, it made sense to me: the bacteria is fueled by organics (ozone makes them bioavailable.)

I added cipro to my tank to rebalance the bacteria population. In this article, it seemed to make the population more typical instead of a dominance of acrobacter.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/e...ic-treatments-for-brown-jelly-disease.782438/
The ICP Oceamo came back very good. No elevated trace or imbalance.

 

[Pistondog]

It’s very hit-or-miss.

I think my tank had a pathogenic bacteria imbalance because what used to me carbon dosing changed into any amount and almost any time causing STN.

When I stopped it, things get better, but I always try it again, thinking it wasn’t the carbon dosing that caused the issues.

When I used ozone after a long time, at a much lower dose, and saw STN, it made sense to me: the bacteria is fueled by organics (ozone makes them bioavailable.)

I added cipro to my tank to rebalance the bacteria population. In this article, it seemed to make the population more typical instead of a dominance of acrobacter.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/e...ic-treatments-for-brown-jelly-disease.782438/
The ICP Oceamo came back very good. No elevated trace or imbalance.

I get bjd each time with ab+, amino acids.
Tried twice.

 

[Miami Reef]

I get bjd each time with ab+, amino acids.
Tried twice.

Bacteria can readily grow and consume amino acids. That makes sense.

I will not be carbon dosing or use ozone. Probably never again. I can’t risk it anymore.

 

[Pistondog]

Tropic Marin claims their carbon products are aimed more toward “good”bacteria. I tend to believe them based on their record and I use them extensively. However being a strong believer in the mantra that the microbiome is the key in a successful reef I still claim that high organics in the water column may turn into a time bomb. To this end, IMO we should strive to low organics (people happy with with 50ppm tank should not be happy at all) and yes use a decent UV to control the bacterial count in the water column. I run a strong UV with the smallest pump so that water come out sterile from my UV. It’s a small fraction but it has a balancing effect in my high bioload tank.

i tried the tm bacto balance and also had bjd, more than once.
i dont think you can help only good bacteria with carbon dosing.

 

[Miami Reef]

i tried the tm bacto balance and also had bjd, more than once.
i dont think you can help only good bacteria with carbon dosing.

Same. BB caused STN for my acros.

Stopping the dose halted progression within a week, so that’s good at least.

 

[Pistondog]

Same. BB caused STN for my acros.

Stopping the dose halted progression within a week, so that’s good at least.

Cipro is my goto for bjd. Has worked so far.