Are antibiotics a tool in reefing?

[Miami Reef]

We built this hobby on bacteria.

Live rock.
Bottled bacteria.
PNS bacteria.
Probiotics.
Carbon dosing.
Microbiome stability.

We dose bacteria.
We feed bacteria.
We worship bacteria.

But what happens when bacteria turns against us?

Here’s what reefers don’t like to talk about:

Not all bacteria are good.

Organic carbon doesn’t just feed “helpful” bacteria — it feeds everything.


Carbon dosing feeds them.
Ozone breaking down organics feeds them.

And let’s be honest — we’re not just feeding bacteria in this hobby.

We’re adding them.

Bottle after bottle. Strain after strain.
Dumping them in and hoping for the best.

And the truth is — we don’t even know which strains we’re adding.

Nobody’s testing them.
Nobody’s identifying them.

Sometimes it’s the killer.

So what do we do when there’s a coral infection that doesn’t seem to get better with conventional methods?

We dip corals.
We frag them.
We increase flow.
We wait.
We pray.

But treat them?
Use antibiotics?

Suddenly you’re a villain.

People don’t like adding antibiotics in reef tanks when truly needed.
People don’t like pretreating anemones.
People don’t like using Chemiclean for Cyano.
People don’t like to treat Brown Jelly Disease.


And I have to ask —

Why?

When did this hobby become more about feeling righteous than actually saving what‘s dying?

 

[56longroof]

I think its because of the possible repercussions of dumping chemicals into a tank. Just my view from the outside looking in.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I’m all for trying to rescue coral that are ill. However, I don’t pretend to know more about antibiotics and marine biology than scientists and doctors. I know nothing about how any of it works other than bacteria become more resistant to antibiotics over time. If Reefers want to experiment, that’s okay with me, but it’s often difficult to prove that a treatment works. It would be nice to have some facts about this so we aren’t guessing, but even the pros don’t know everything about coral. Until then, people will argue with their feelings and keep dumping in bottles of elixirs and potions.

 

[Troylee]

We built this hobby on bacteria.

Live rock.
Bottled bacteria.
PNS bacteria.
Probiotics.
Carbon dosing.
Microbiome stability.

We dose bacteria.
We feed bacteria.
We worship bacteria.

But what happens when bacteria turns against us?

Here’s what reefers don’t like to talk about:

Not all bacteria are good.

Organic carbon doesn’t just feed “helpful” bacteria — it feeds everything.

The more organics you add, the more food you give to whatever’s waiting — even the bacteria you don’t want.

Carbon dosing feeds them.
Ozone breaking down organics feeds them.

And let’s be honest — we’re not just feeding bacteria in this hobby.

We’re adding them.

Bottle after bottle. Strain after strain.
Dumping them in and hoping for the best.

And the truth is — we don’t even know which strains we’re adding.

Nobody’s testing them.
Nobody’s identifying them.

We’ve built entire reef systems on bacteria we can’t even name.


Bacteria isn’t always your ally.
Sometimes it’s the killer.

So what do we do?

We dip corals.
We frag them.
We increase flow.
We wait.
We pray.
We watch them slough away.

But treat them?
Use antibiotics?

Suddenly you’re a villain.

People don’t like dosing antibiotics in reef tanks.
People don’t like treating anemones.
People don’t like using Chemiclean for Cyano.

And I have to ask —

Why?

When did this hobby become more about feeling righteous than actually saving what‘s dying?

We tell ourselves this hobby is about keeping corals alive.

But when push comes to shove, some of us would rather let them waste away than question our own dogma.

Most have been tested and more are being tested by @telegraham and others. He has a full break down of several different bacteria he sent into aqua biomics for testing.. I couldn’t tell ya what half of it is or what’s good and bad thou haha!

 

[Tahoe61]

Perhaps it's the reluctance to treat because most hobbyist don't know the specifics of the pathogen, be it bacteria or virus. Most hobbyist see copepods but perhaps they are seeing mites that actually irritate and in some cases feed off corals. Lack of the exact identification creates reluctance.

Chemiclean I know it treats Cyanobacteria, I am confident in my identification of Cyanobacteria. Many newer hobbyist are not confident. Many hobbyist use Chemiclean not aware that it's only effective for Cyanobacteria.
The use of antibiotics in a mixed reef tank can be problematic. Once again are they treating a specific strain of bacteria with an antibiotic that's effective against that specific strain, who knows. The common layman hobbyist doesn't know or care if a bacteria is gram positive or negative. And then you add the development of resistance.
The fear of untoward side effects likely keeps hobbyist from experimenting with treatments.
Overall though I see increased proactive activity to prevent illness. Dipping, quarantine, expanded knowledge base, resources such as R2R.

 

[ReneReef]

Treating unknown pathogens with random antibiotics means your dumping antibiotics and remnants there off willy nilly into the environment without knowing if you used them effectively.

Antibiotic resistance is a real threat to public health and their use is therefore strictly regulated in large parts of the world for a very good reason.

Medication and remnants there off pose an increasing threat to the safety of surface water and drinking water supplies. These substances are very difficult to filter out in waste water treatment plants.

So, when employing antibiotics to treat a coral you need a diagnosis first. And no, S or RTN is not a disease its a symptom. At the moment we are very very dar away from effectively employing antibiotics in treating corals.

Even if you are inclined to say, it is my choice to put whatever I want in my tank. And even if I were to think that to be a valid argument. How are you making sure that no antibiotics end up in the environment when you do a water change??
Do we even know how to prevent antibiotic pollution?
We know a lot about pharmacokinetics in humans, other mammals and some other groups of animals. We know nothing about pharmacokinetics in reef tanks.

Last thing to consider, unless you were proper ppe, you are exposing yourself to antibiotics on a very regular basis if you regularly dip new corals. If you treat your tank, you may expose yourself and your loved once to an aerosolised dose… etc etc.

Bottom line, there may come a day when we can say when using antibiotics to treat diseased corals is effective. That day is not today. Antibiotic use “because we can” is a terrible idea.

 

[Miami Reef]

So, when employing antibiotics to treat a coral you need a diagnosis first. And no, S or RTN is not a disease its a symptom.

Here is an example of acropora white band disease getting better with antibiotics:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4083779/
“Disease progression continued in all the diseased corals not treated with antibiotics throughout the duration of the experiment”

How are you making sure that no antibiotics end up in the environment when you do a water change??
Do we even know how to prevent antibiotic pollution?

Cipro, for example, degrades with light.

 

[Miami Reef]

Most have been tested and more are being tested by @telegraham and others. He has a full break down of several different bacteria he sent into aqua biomics for testing.. I couldn’t tell ya what half of it is or what’s good and bad thou haha!

He found Zeobak contained Step and Staph:

 

[FrugalReeferJon]

Most have been tested and more are being tested by @telegraham and others. He has a full break down of several different bacteria he sent into aqua biomics for testing.. I couldn’t tell ya what half of it is or what’s good and bad thou haha!

Link to these tests please.

 

[Troylee]

He found Zeobak contained Step and Staph:

And I still use it… means nothing to me lol.. zeo tanks speak for themselves!

 

[ReneReef]

Here is an example of acropora white band disease getting better with antibiotics:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4083779/
“Disease progression continued in all the diseased corals not treated with antibiotics throughout the duration of the experiment”


Cipro, for example, degrades with light.

Yes, there are examples of treatment that seem to work. Most do not describe the pathogen. The paper you cite in not conclusive on that. They don't even match antibiotics to the potential pathogens, they just got one that someone tried before plus some random ones.

Without knowing the pathogen or disease mechanism we don't know if antibiotic use is the best option. And if so, which antibiotic, in what dose, for what period, in which circumstances... etc etc.

In top of that, current evidence suggests single pathogen disease is not a thing in corals.


So Cipro degrades by light. What light? How much? For how long? When do I know it is safe to do a water change?
If we don't know this, we cannot use it safely.


That an antibiotic stopped disease progression (that is what the study you cite says) does not say much about survival. Maybe the microbiome was whiped out and after treatment it is a sitting duck for any pathogen that comes along.
The immune system of a coral is very much dependent on many micro organism living within it. It is not comparable to the immune system of higher animals.

A reasonable comparison to human medicine: fecal transplantation.
In some cases of severe intestinal Clostridium difficile infection. Patients are treated with oral antibiotics of a kind that does not pass through the intestinal wall into the blood stream. Limiting side effects. But a lot of the intestinal microbiome is wiped out as well making them susceptible to reinfection. Transplanting fecal matter from a healthy donor is very successful in helping patients by establishing a healthy biome and preventing reinfection.

Three things of note:
1) known pathogen, so effective antibiotic can be chosen.
2) limiting exposure, the drug only enters the gut making the treatment safer and more effective (lower dose).
3) introducing a healthy biome after treatment, because no antibiotic is specific to a single strain of bacteria and a compromised biome is prone to reinfection.

It seems very likely to me, that the after care for a coral treated with antibiotics is very important.
Treating a torch for BJD out side of a tank and putting it back in that tank after treatment seems counter intuitive.

At the moment, in this hobby and in many research papers (including the one you cite) we are stabbing in the dark with random weapons at an unknown enemy in a room full of innocent bystanders where the floor is a wet biohazardous substance being aerosolised by everybody jumping in it while it slowly seeps away into nature.

 

[Miami Reef]

I get the concern, but reefers using microgram doses in closed systems aren’t significantly driving antibiotic resistance — agriculture and human overuse are.

Corals are living animals, and their health matters too.

If we waited for perfect knowledge before treating anything, we wouldn’t have medicine, reef tanks, or even basic husbandry practice IMO.

Curious if anyone here has successfully beaten STN or BJD without antibiotics. What worked for you?

 

[stE26wy14]

If we could treat them, they I think most, if not all the reefs in the ocean would be happy and thriving. But we can’t! We treat out corals by putting them in low flow, or maybe dosing a little more bacteria, or feeding coral a little bit more. Maybe less light. Everybody has their owns ways. It’s just depends on your form of treatment. Medicine, no. If yes, then planet would be saved.
Bacteria, yes! Phyto, and ummm, others!
Low flow/low light, yes! It helps them because it may not stress them out as much, even as they are already going through stress.
Feeding, yes, maybe, just to give the coral more nutrients or power?
Maybe even dosing more or less. Give them the power, or lay low. Like a sick child, u don’t feed them as usual ungive them something light like soup.
So, it really depends on your viewpoint!

 

[JonoH]

Big issue is actually getting a vet to perscribe anti-biotics is close to impossible...or at least the cost becomes prohibitive.

I managed to get some Infection Elimination sent over from the states just this week, so hoping to be able to test this out next time i have any bacterial issue with Hammers or Torches.

 

[JayM]

I don’t use antibiotics for a few reasons:

I can’t positively identify if it’s a bacterial or viral issue.

Antibiotics are difficult to obtain without a prescription. Not to mention fairly expensive.

Antibiotics don’t discriminate. They’re as likely to kill beneficial bacteria as they are harmful bacteria, potentially creating more issues.

The whole “superbug” thing. Every course that doesn’t completely kill a given bacteria contributes a bit.

 

[pooootiqe]

I've stopped RTN with ciprofloxacin when everything else failed. Followed Mike Paletta's procedure on Reef Builders but there really isn't a guideline out there.

Regarding identification - I have seen Chinese reef vendors sell Vibrio identification agar for tissue swabs to identify Vibrio-related BJD. The problem with these diseases is they happen so quickly that one would lose the infected corals and more in the time identification can be done. It's unreasonable for hobbyists needing culture-based, biomolecular, or microscopy methods at home to ID pathogens before treatment. Maybe one day paper-based assays like the COVID test kits could be made to ID vibrio or arcobacter, but I think the hammer approach will persist before that happens.

 

[commod0re]

There’s good and bad bacteria everywhere anyway; I think it would be arrogant to believe that I have very much control over it beyond certain influences that have limitations. I try to manage the nutrient inputs and provide an environment where “bad” bacteria just has a harder time thriving and otherwise I just don’t stress too hard about it, which is not so different from the rest of life.

Besides, what am I, a coral doctor? I could as easily do more harm than good to more than just a coral if I mess up trying to treat something with antibiotics and I just think that’s way way riskier than more “traditional” approaches

 

[Koty]

Tropic Marin claims their carbon products are aimed more toward “good”bacteria. I tend to believe them based on their record and I use them extensively. However being a strong believer in the mantra that the microbiome is the key in a successful reef I still claim that high organics in the water column may turn into a time bomb. To this end, IMO we should strive to low organics (people happy with with 50ppm tank should not be happy at all) and yes use a decent UV to control the bacterial count in the water column. I run a strong UV with the smallest pump so that water come out sterile from my UV. It’s a small fraction but it has a balancing effect in my high bioload tank.

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

Very difficult to get antibiotics here in Canada unless you have some shady connections in the hobby.

I asked my vet about cup to and they just said no straight up lol.

 

[19Mateo83]

We built this hobby on bacteria.

Live rock.
Bottled bacteria.
PNS bacteria.
Probiotics.
Carbon dosing.
Microbiome stability.

We dose bacteria.
We feed bacteria.
We worship bacteria.

But what happens when bacteria turns against us?

Here’s what reefers don’t like to talk about:

Not all bacteria are good.

Organic carbon doesn’t just feed “helpful” bacteria — it feeds everything.

The more organics you add, the more food you give to whatever’s waiting — even the bacteria you don’t want.

Carbon dosing feeds them.
Ozone breaking down organics feeds them.

And let’s be honest — we’re not just feeding bacteria in this hobby.

We’re adding them.

Bottle after bottle. Strain after strain.
Dumping them in and hoping for the best.

And the truth is — we don’t even know which strains we’re adding.

Nobody’s testing them.
Nobody’s identifying them.

We’ve built entire reef systems on bacteria we can’t even name.


Bacteria isn’t always your ally.
Sometimes it’s the killer.

So what do we do?

We dip corals.
We frag them.
We increase flow.
We wait.
We pray.
We watch them slough away.

But treat them?
Use antibiotics?

Suddenly you’re a villain.

People don’t like dosing antibiotics in reef tanks.
People don’t like treating anemones.
People don’t like using Chemiclean for Cyano.

And I have to ask —

Why?

When did this hobby become more about feeling righteous than actually saving what‘s dying?

We tell ourselves this hobby is about keeping corals alive.

But when push comes to shove, some of us would rather let them waste away than question our own dogma.

Very good questions we all need to be asking….