Are these dinos? Microscope picture need help identifying

[Will Wohlers]

I recently had an issue with my ro/di unit producing water of 15 tds before I caught the problem. Unfortunately I did a 30% water change the day before I caught the issue. Anyway my tank has always been clean if algae and cyno. Never had to battle dinos but after the dirty water change this stuff showed up. It's brownish red ,really stringy, growing over corals, and has little air bubbles in it. I did a 50% water change this week with 0 tds water and the stuff hasn't gotten any better. So I'm worrying it's dinos. I managed to get a pic under my daughter's cheap microscope but don't know what I'm looking at. Also they don't move under the scope. Completely stationary. Please help me get my tank back in order. Thanks
Will

 

[ndrwater]

#reefsquad
I think so, but want other opinions..

 

[Lasse]

Dino is short for dinoflagellates - This means that the organism has at least one flagell, that is, one or more "tails" that move. I can´t see this on your pictures - hence - I do not think it is a "dino". But I´m not sure at all.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Jason mack]

Could be cyno or spirulina ... easy way too test .... take a small sample in a dish ..add peroxide .. if the water and sample turn pinkish it’s cyno if not it spirulina ... just done this myself ..

 

[Idoc]

Those pics look just like other dino pics I've seen on the forum and Google. But, was there anything else in the pictures?

 

[Gareth elliott]

If up to test a hypothesis of mine could take a drop of red 40 into enough vinegar to lower the ph of the solution to around 5 then use this solution to stain the organisms on a slide.

Read a study where red #40 at ph levels of 2-7 bonds primarily to chitin on a cellular level. Since most dinos are covered in a chitin plates.
Should in theory allow you to discern individual organisms by the amount pigment absorbed.
So far only done on my own tank to differentiate armored and unarmored dinos.

Red #40 is the primary die in red food coloring.

 

[reeferfoxx]

@taricha can you ID this?

 

[CDavmd]

I recently had an issue with my ro/di unit producing water of 15 tds before I caught the problem. Unfortunately I did a 30% water change the day before I caught the issue. Anyway my tank has always been clean if algae and cyno. Never had to battle dinos but after the dirty water change this stuff showed up. It's brownish red ,really stringy, growing over corals, and has little air bubbles in it. I did a 50% water change this week with 0 tds water and the stuff hasn't gotten any better. So I'm worrying it's dinos. I managed to get a pic under my daughter's cheap microscope but don't know what I'm looking at. Also they don't move under the scope. Completely stationary. Please help me get my tank back in order. Thanks
Will

Yes this is a Dinoflagellate. Based on that image alone, I favor Ostreopsis but cannot completely rule out prorocentrum based on that image.

Could be cyno or spirulina ... easy way too test .... take a small sample in a dish ..add peroxide .. if the water and sample turn pinkish it’s cyno if not it spirulina ... just done this myself ..

This is definitely not Cyano. Cyano has the appearance of segmented tendrils (like a mat of spaghetti).;)

 

[Will Wohlers]

Ok guys dinos it is. I can try and get a better picture tonight. Will dino x work on either of those species? Peroxide dosing? Need to not worry about my sps
Thanks so much
Will Wohlers

 

[CDavmd]

I personally found DinoX as ineffective on my Amphidinium species. It really hurt a bunch of my corals toward the end of the treatment period. Similarly, blackouts and peroxide dosing did little in my tank. I found success by raising nutrients and encouraging growth of competitor algae, siphoning, UV, and partial sand removal, and Silica dosing to encourage diatoms. Again I had Amphidinium that stays on the sandbed.

For Ostreopsis that will venture into the water column; it appears that UV and nutrient elevation are the mainstays. I suggest you start reading the main Dino-thread. This is not an overnight fix unfortunately. :(

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318

 

[Lasse]

This is definitely not Cyano. Cyano has the appearance of segmented tendrils (like a mat of spaghetti).

However There is tons of different cyano bacteria species out there. Look for flagellates - can you see them - no doubt if it is Dino or not

Sincerely Lasse

 

[CDavmd]

However There is tons of different cyano bacteria species out there. Look for flagellates - can you see them - no doubt if it is Dino or not

Sincerely Lasse

Yes but in general the cyanobacteria species we see in the reef environment are segmented long tendrils. Some will corkscrew, others are more linear.

The Flagellum of a dinoflagellate is difficult to see with the magnifications we are using. It also requires playing with the condenser of the microscope and high magnification. The movement of the species along with the tell-tale sesame seed morphology speaks to dinoflagellates- ostreopsis species.

 

[Will Wohlers]

If you reread my first post I said I can see no movement. They appear stationary.

 

[CDavmd]

If you reread my first post I said I can see no movement. They appear stationary.

What is the magnification of that first image? I have seen the Dino's slow and die as the water on the microscope slide begins to heat and dry out. Your description of mucous, slime, bubbles, and that sesame seed image really speaks to dinoflagellates

 

[Lasse]

Yes - we often call that symptoms for Dino - your right in that. But I'not total sure of this. There is - as I have understand - at least one cyano that growe like that.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Will Wohlers]

1200x magnification. Yes all the symptoms speak to dinos to me too but the microscope no tail and no movement that I can see makes me question it. They could be dead but not dried out. None were moving in less than a minute it took for me to focus the microscope on them. Also I'm not using a cover slide. Only a drop of water on a base slide right under the scope.

 

[Will Wohlers]

I take it back. Def caught them swimming around having a good ol time. They are pretty fast and swim forward with a kind of rocking from side to side motion.

 

[Will Wohlers]

The almond tip is towards the back as they swim.

 

[CDavmd]

The almond tip is towards the back as they swim.

Dinoflagellates unfortunately :(

Again given that appearance I favor Ostreopsis. Yes they move fairly quickly, hence the difficulty in seeing flagellum. They need to stay fairly still and you need to drop the condenser and stop down the iris while maintaining high magnification in order to see them. A difficult task. In any event, my previous link and recommendations stand. Increase nutrients, siphon, UV are you friends.

Just for everyones benefit- here are some images of cyanobacteria and the various Dino types:

Cyanobacterium:


Ostreopsis:



Prorocentrum:



Amphidinium:



Coolia:


Here is a good article with lots of species images-

http://www.kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=STHHCL_2013_v36n4_347

 

[Idoc]

Dinoflagellates unfortunately :(

Again given that appearance I favor Ostreopsis. Yes they move fairly quickly, hence the difficulty in seeing flagellum. They need to stay fairly still and you need to drop the condenser and stop down the iris while maintaining high magnification in order to see them. A difficult task. In any event, my previous link and recommendations stand. Increase nutrients, siphon, UV are you friends.

Just for everyones benefit- here are some images of cyanobacteria and the various Dino types:

Cyanobacterium:


Ostreopsis:



Prorocentrum:



Amphidinium:



Coolia:


Here is a good article with lots of species images-

http://www.kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=STHHCL_2013_v36n4_347

Thanks... these are awesome pics to help differentiate algaes/dinos with magnification... definitely bookmarking that post!