Are whites necessary?

[A. grandis]

I had always thought the white spectrum assisted with faster growth in SPS. I usually run my whites at the AB+ spectrum with Radions (24%) for around 3 hours, then back to only blues.

Generally speaking that is correct.

 

[LRT]

I've been doing alot of experimenting with spectrum lately. Literally all over the spectrum.
What ive found is that, especially with shrooms. Some bounces will shrink cap and throw more bounces and push more zooxanthellae up into those bounces in heavy or all blues.
Oddly enough some Yumas will do the exact same thing in heavy or all whites and shrink up in heavy blues.
I'm kinda chalking this up to deep and shallow water shrooms. Nothing else makes sense really.
Having said that they ALL tend to grow faster, some literally nearly tripple in size in heavier white or full spectrum.
The shrunken up cap in all blues def feels and looks more like a stress response most likely associated with defense mechanism of the bounces attempting to shield and hide themselves from the heavy blues by shrinking and throwing more full bounces. Def don't get the healthy, happy sprawled out basking in sun vibe I get with healthy whites mixed in.
Id imagine people are getting exact same response with other corals.
I've seen plenty of data on what uses the blue spectrum predominantly.
But does anyone have data on which spectrum actually "Grows" coral tissue and skeleton?
I'm leaning towards white for shrooms as far as tissue growth.

 

[Coral Kai]

So not what I expected this thread to be about given today’s political discourse when I read the title.

lol made me laugh out loud at work

 

[A. grandis]

lol made me laugh out loud at work

White lights matter! LOL!

 

[Spare time]

White is for our eyes. It's not something that in the depths of the ocean corals get. If you look at all the big coral growers in the hobby, such as Jason fox and WWC, they are using all blues.

Whites are great for watching your fish and what not, but it's not something that will affect corals negatively if they go with out.

You have to go far past where photosynthetic corals grow to have ONLY blue light. Keep in mind that white is not a color/wavelength.

 

[NoahLikesFish]

i think whites are necessary to make a natural tank and they look better on the fishes.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

White lights matter! LOL!

Critical Light Theory?

 

[Goaway]

I use white light because my bta loves it. Responds with longer extension, blue lights it is shorter and more bubbly. I don't think my corals care for it. They don't change extension, until they want the whites of. They'll retract if the whites run over 4 hours. I don't have a timer for whites :(

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I use white light because my bta loves it. Responds with longer extension, blue lights it is shorter and more bubbly. I don't think my corals care for it. They don't change extension, until they want the whites of. They'll retract if the whites run over 4 hours. I don't have a timer for whites :(

I use these timers. They are fantastic. Little wide so you need wide plugs but fantastic.

Smart Plugs That Work with Alexa Echo Google Home... Amazon product

 

[Goaway]

I use these timers. They are fantastic

Smart Plugs That Work with Alexa Echo Google Home... Amazon product

Sadly, current usa won't work with Those :(
I may add a t5 suppliment. Those would work great!

 

[scardall]

what is white light?

What wavelength does white light have?
White light is not a color, it's a combination of all colors, the same as black is the absence of all colors. Therefore it cannot be assigned a single wavelength. White light contains all wavelengths from about 390 nm to 700 nm.

 

[Bpb]

White is for our eyes. It's not something that in the depths of the ocean corals get. If you look at all the big coral growers in the hobby, such as Jason fox and WWC, they are using all blues.

Whites are great for watching your fish and what not, but it's not something that will affect corals negatively if they go with out.

Not 100% accurate though. Wwc has publicized they turn up the white and green especially during the early hours before open and provide higher par during those hours and then run the par all blue, low, and long during business hours. Jason fox also uses primarily t5 lighting on his frag tanks which consist of blue+ and purple+ bulbs with blue LEDs. While it may appear mostly blue to the eye, it is still providing plenty of full spectrum. In his largest system he still uses 20k metal halides which are plenty white for today’s standards. Most commercial enterprises that advertise images and especially those who have walk in traffic use solid blue for aesthetics only. They still provide full spectrum white light for a sufficient amount of time each day

 

[ReefRy]

White lights matter! LOL!

L.M.F.A.O. That is sooo much better than my joke! Well done!

 

[Bpb]

Adam at Battlecorals has the right idea. Low kelvin full spectrum for 4-6 hours a day of high par and if you want the blue pictures, he’s got them. But it’s for photos and he’s very clear about that. Provides full spectrum for growth, health, and shares those images as well for full disclosure

 

[jda]

If you just want to grease up the looks of your corals to sell them for a few hours for a few weeks, then all blue is fine. I cannot believe the stupidity of thinking that what a vendor does is good for a hobbyist.. what is next dragster engines in commuter cars? Does anybody who uses Jason Fox light stuff really know what he does to light his tanks (it is not all blues)? Do people know that the blue bulbs that he uses are really like Blue Plus and a full-spectrum light? Do they do massive amounts of water changes every week? Do they follow his plan 100%? If not, then just stop. You will hurt yourself more than you will help by partially looking to a professional and vendor for hobby advice.

Nearly everything that is in all of our tanks was likely collected on one breath under 5-10 meters... nearly everything. I am sorry that some LED companies fooled you into thinking that your coral came from deeper, but you would need a rebreather and VERY expensive equipment to collect a coral that sells for a few dollars to get down that low and the money is not there. The people that have that kind of equipment use it to catch rare fish that can get thousands of dollars. Blue is left below 150 meters - who goes down this low besides James Cameron in one of his mini submarines?

Whether you want to use white light or not, at least get the facts right... which are that the vendors are trying to sell their corals and NOT keep them for years... and that your corals do not come from a place where there is nothing but blue. These stupid parroted things come up every time that this question gets asked and they have never been accurate.

My bottom line is to use daylight to render the best color in the corals and then blue it up to look at them. Adam is a good example, but he is still a vendor which you should NEVER try and emulate...and if you do, choose all of what they do and not just bits and pieces. Therman has threads on here with some of the best looking corals under LED and he runs 100% on all channels. I use lots of daylight in my tanks if you want to check out my rebuild thread - they work on more than just acropora.

 

[LRT]

Id strongly reccomended to anyone using a LED that brs has done an investigation on. Watch the video and try running reccomended settings for a month.
On the contrary to popular belief brs schedules are not heavy blue spectrum. For my particular led the ratio is actually 35%blues and 18%whites. Close to 50/50.
To me its just the right amount of healthy spectrum our corals need as far as what ive seen from my corals..
All I'll be experimenting with from here is to see how much more white I can throw in the mix to see if I can get some of my shrooms to quadruple in size:D

 

[A. grandis]

If you just want to grease up the looks of your corals to sell them for a few hours for a few weeks, then all blue is fine. I cannot believe the stupidity of thinking that what a vendor does is good for a hobbyist.. what is next dragster engines in commuter cars? Does anybody who uses Jason Fox light stuff really know what he does to light his tanks (it is not all blues)? Do people know that the blue bulbs that he uses are really like Blue Plus and a full-spectrum light? Do they do massive amounts of water changes every week? Do they follow his plan 100%? If not, then just stop. You will hurt yourself more than you will help by partially looking to a professional and vendor for hobby advice.

Nearly everything that is in all of our tanks was likely collected on one breath under 5-10 meters... nearly everything. I am sorry that some LED companies fooled you into thinking that your coral came from deeper, but you would need a rebreather and VERY expensive equipment to collect a coral that sells for a few dollars to get down that low and the money is not there. The people that have that kind of equipment use it to catch rare fish that can get thousands of dollars. Blue is left below 150 meters - who goes down this low besides James Cameron in one of his mini submarines?

Whether you want to use white light or not, at least get the facts right... which are that the vendors are trying to sell their corals and NOT keep them for years... and that your corals do not come from a place where there is nothing but blue. These stupid parroted things come up every time that this question gets asked and they have never been accurate.

My bottom line is to use daylight to render the best color in the corals and then blue it up to look at them. Adam is a good example, but he is still a vendor which you should NEVER try and emulate...and if you do, choose all of what they do and not just bits and pieces. Therman has threads on here with some of the best looking corals under LED and he runs 100% on all channels. I use lots of daylight in my tanks if you want to check out my rebuild thread - they work on more than just acropora.

jda... specifically talking about Jason Fox, he actually said that "the majority of the corals collected for the hobby comes from deeper waters" (11:43) and that's probably why he "like the way the corals look under blue"..He "believes the corals like blue light".



Jason's tanks with halides and/or T5s do get a wide spectrum, even under ATI Blue Plus only.. that's why more PAR from those bulbs.

I do agree with what you wrote in your post... Just want to bring up here what he actually says and that is what people will believe. I think we could call "deeper waters" to be a very wide and relative term nowadays (?).

It's a common sense to understand most of the corals for the hobby come from shallow waters! I've never heard otherwise, but in the video I just posted.

 

[Nano sapiens]

jda... specifically talking about Jason Fox, he actually said that "the majority of the corals collected for the hobby comes from deeper waters" (11:43) and that's probably why he "like the way the corals look under blue"..He "believes the corals like blue light".

Perhaps a better way to express this is to look at the amount/type of light that a coral receives instead of rigidly defined depth levels.

This article illustrates that lower light corals can often be found in sheltered places in shallower water:

https://reefbuilders.com/2021/02/08/lower-light-corals-can-live-in-shallow-water-too/

So while a particular type of coral might be found directly exposed at 100 ft depth, it may also be found partial shaded at 60 ft...or even more heavily shaded at 30 ft. The spectral quality of light may not differ quite as much as we might think when comparing an exposed deeper water coral and the same coral when growing shaded under a ledge or other coral in shallower water (would be most interesting to get light spectrum readings to determine the relative light spectrums).

The vast majority of coral collectors aren't going to use fancy and expensive equipment to go deep to find coral, so this would also explain how many of these 'deep water' corals can end up in the reef aquarium hobby.

 

[jda]

Jason Fox is trying to sell your coral. 5 meters people. ...maybe 10. You can take a trip to the pacific and go out with coral collectors and even collect your own - you get a mask, snorkel (if you want it), a bag and some hardware to break off or cut pieces... and a huge list of things that you cannot touch. Has anybody been to MACNA and see the talk from the people who collect coral and/or run the mari facilities? Most of the mari facilities have their corals deeper than where they collect at about 15-20 feet.

If you go to the pacific, you can scuba and collect stuff from deeper, but you will be one of the few. You also are on vacation and willing to spend much more cash. Even then, you will be in clear, open water and won't go down below 100 meters where only blue filters out.

The so called deepwater corals are open to the air a lot during low tide. They don't come from deep water. I am most speaking of acropora here since I don't know where they get the so called deepwater zoas.

 

[jda]

This is not my photo and is a protected area, but most corals are going to be collected at places more like this... Some will waist deep and you bend over to cut or gather them. These thrive, BTW.