At wits end

reefboy · May 5, 2008

As title say's im all out of options on what to do lol heres my problem I've ben having stuff recede on me for the past few months and cant figure out why.I know its not a parasite and it's mainly affecting milli types and valida types and my granulosa and a few of my torts but not all and it can be in diffrent systems but all are plumed together and some of the same types can be in same system one growing normaly while other starts to recede so hers tank parameters
Sal 1.024-25
Cal 450
alk 2.98
Ph 8.0-8.2
Phos- 0.17 I know this may be high to some but it has never been a issue but Iam working it down

Now I dont have results for Iodine,strotium, or Mag as I add iodine regularly and figured my two large Cal reactors would be doing the rest I also do 100 gallon water changes weekly know on a ruffly 1200 gal system it also has automatic top off system for fresh so salinty hardly fluxes so any ideas everything had ben doing great then bam all these hit and mis cases and I cant figure out why its happening so any Ideas.

rocko918 · May 5, 2008

My suggestion would be to test you Mag. Seems to be a newer problem. Just a thought.

Eklikewhoa · May 5, 2008

I have had that happen before but the only ones that it never happened to was my blue tip acro and pink milli.....I think in my situation it had a lot to do with temp swings(2-3f).

J. Montgomery · May 5, 2008

I think that checking your magnesium would be a good idea.

With temperature fluctuations, my temp regularly swing 2-3 deg. F without any noticeable problems.

cee · May 5, 2008

If you've got a heavy SPS load, a CaRX will have a hard time supplementing the Mg, IME. I gave up on CaRX for that reason and others. I have to dose strontium now with my 2 part, but only after testing for it. If you run BB, you might also want to consider testing potassium as my tank and synthetic salts in general tend to run low on potassium. Just my experience, your setup sounds quite a bit different, but you may want to look at K and St.

Dave

reefboy · May 5, 2008

All good info I've bought new tests as mine were old and will be testing the strotium and mag(then adding supplements if needed) but never considered the potasium so ill bring these up to par and see what happens then check potassium.Thanks for the great info

surfn · May 5, 2008

i had a very similar issue recently. i never figured out what it was...but i did lose a sarmentosa and milli colony in the process. other things receded such as my tort, purple pillow, birds nest and some other things, but i managed to save them.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8403&highlight=receeding

as for the possibilities, i've narrowed it down to the following:

-possible crash in magnesium that lasted a week, but problems continued on for 2 1/2 months
-possible crash in alkalinity (5-6dkh) that lasted a week, but problems continued for 2 1/2 months
-possible potassium depletion (theory by Randy Holmes Farely)
-possible bacterial infection
-possibly added too many Boston Aqua Farms frag plugs too quickly, may have caused some alk issues but I'm not positive.

everything is fine now though. my STN seemed to stop right after i did a ton of water changes in about 2 weeks (about 20% every other day), and i dipped all my SPS corals in TMPCC mixture, but in the process....b/c they were already stressed, i almost killed several from the dip.

CharlieDavidson · May 5, 2008

IMHO, you need to know your big 3. Alk, Cal and mag. they seem to be very much interlaced.
Your alk is low IMO.. shoot for 3.2 (9 kdh) mag. (really needs to be tested)
Water changes with what salt mix?

J. Montgomery · May 5, 2008

Alex, what about your elevated magnesium levels? I'd imagine that the frequent water changes brought that back down, relieving the stress from the corals.

reefboy · May 5, 2008

Well my strotium was well below normal and my mag was also low so slowly bring those back up as far as alk im happy with 2.98 any higher in my system and cal drops right know its above 500 so will see how things go im also doing regular water changes as It wont hurt.I blame myself I got lazy these last few months thanks for the help.

surfn · May 6, 2008

J. Montgomery said:
Alex, what about your elevated magnesium levels? I'd imagine that the frequent water changes brought that back down, relieving the stress from the corals.

nah, i know my magnesium got really low (~1000ppm) at one point, and then i ran out of the kit shortly afterward...and i kept dosing based on what i thought was 1tsp = X #ppm Mg. but i obviously overdosed quite large b/c i wasn't keeping track of what i was putting in on a weekly basis. so IMO, i overdosed the magnesium after things had already started to get better. and even when i had it up around 1900ppm recently i didn't see any negative side affects with the corals.

Dejavu · May 9, 2008

Here are a few things I can think of: First are you using a refractometer? If so when is the last time you calibrated it? have you checked your TDS on your RO/DI water? As you have already note your PO4 are high. They would be better at .03-.04 ppm. But if you have never had an issue with them being high I don't think that the problem. I know you said that its not pest, but from what you have listed, it seem only acro are infected. You aloso noted that it's mainly affecting milli types and valida types. Well, I had a similar thing happen a few years back, only to find it was AEFW's. My milli types and valida types were the first hit. Most of the damage with AEFW will occur at the base. They are very hard to see and can be missed. I would check the base for group or clusters of egg. They will be pearly brown. Not sure if you have dipped any of the problem acros, but it wouldn't hurt to try. I have had good results with TMPCC. Good luck!

reefboy · May 9, 2008

Dejavu said:
Here are a few things I can think of: First are you using a refractometer? If so when is the last time you calibrated it? have you checked your TDS on your RO/DI water? As you have already note your PO4 are high. They would be better at .03-.04 ppm. But if you have never had an issue with them being high I don't think that the problem. I know you said that its not pest, but from what you have listed, it seem only acro are infected. You aloso noted that it's mainly affecting milli types and valida types. Well, I had a similar thing happen a few years back, only to find it was AEFW's. My milli types and valida types were the first hit. Most of the damage with AEFW will occur at the base. They are very hard to see and can be missed. I would check the base for group or clusters of egg. They will be pearly brown. Not sure if you have dipped any of the problem acros, but it wouldn't hurt to try. I have had good results with TMPCC. Good luck!

All good points but ive checked for the flatworms and have seen none I had a problem a year or so ago so knew what to look for but no sign's also dipped some to make sure nothing showed up.As far as my refractor I use deionzed water and then adjust with the reagant recipe from randy holmes-farley and I have had some recession in other types of lps corals but it had mainly affect those types mentioned above but all sps types were affected just the milli/prostrata type and valida's seem to get it the worst and wierd thing same types in other systems not affected at all even frags next to each other one would receed and other would be fine but I think I got it figured out and the big thing that is making the diffrence is good old water changes which I had slacked on beings my system is so large so it was my own fault for slacking lol I was so busy trying to get as many frag systems in my farm that I missed the main fact of making water changes easy lol somthing I'll remedy here soon lol.

surfn · May 13, 2008

reefboy said:
All good points but ive checked for the flatworms and have seen none I had a problem a year or so ago so knew what to look for but no sign's also dipped some to make sure nothing showed up.As far as my refractor I use deionzed water and then adjust with the reagant recipe from randy holmes-farley and I have had some recession in other types of lps corals but it had mainly affect those types mentioned above but all sps types were affected just the milli/prostrata type and valida's seem to get it the worst and wierd thing same types in other systems not affected at all even frags next to each other one would receed and other would be fine but I think I got it figured out and the big thing that is making the diffrence is good old water changes which I had slacked on beings my system is so large so it was my own fault for slacking lol I was so busy trying to get as many frag systems in my farm that I missed the main fact of making water changes easy lol somthing I'll remedy here soon lol.

my problem seemed to correct itself also after a few religious water changes. which leads me to think there is some sort of micro nutrient depletion going on (possibly potassium from what it sounds like over on RC)

cee · May 13, 2008

Test your potassium. I'm willing to bet it is in the low 300 ppm range. You can buy a suitable inexpensive potassium booster here:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=777&at=0
If I did my math right, 3 grams of potassium per teaspoon in 100 gallons of water (378 liters) is 8 ppm per teaspoon per 100 gallons of water, or 12 tsp raises 100 gallons by 100 ppm. Just don't overdo it, and check out zeovit.com for pictoral instructions on how to read the korallen-zucht test kit.

Dave

surfn · May 13, 2008

cee said:
Test your potassium. I'm willing to bet it is in the low 300 ppm range. You can buy a suitable inexpensive potassium booster here:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=777&at=0
If I did my math right, 3 grams of potassium per teaspoon in 100 gallons of water (378 liters) is 8 ppm per teaspoon per 100 gallons of water, or 12 tsp raises 100 gallons by 100 ppm. Just don't overdo it, and check out zeovit.com for pictoral instructions on how to read the korallen-zucht test kit.

Dave

where do you buy a reliable potassium test kit? i don't think i've ever seen one

cee · May 13, 2008

The korrallen-zucht works for me, but reading it is a bit tricky, hence the recommendation to check zeovit.com here:
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7067&highlight=kaliumtest
Somebody else also makes a kit, but I can't remember who at the moment. I know fragfarmer and some of the other vendors on zeovit.com carry the KZ kit, aka Kaliumtest. Good luck!

Dave

surfn · May 13, 2008

cee said:
The korrallen-zucht works for me, but reading it is a bit tricky, hence the recommendation to check zeovit.com here:
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7067&highlight=kaliumtest
Somebody else also makes a kit, but I can't remember who at the moment. I know fragfarmer and some of the other vendors on zeovit.com carry the KZ kit, aka Kaliumtest. Good luck!

Dave

does it even work if you aren't doing zeo?