AWC Salt Mix

[dank.reefer]

Hello there reefers. I am looking to start doing autowater changes. The biggest issue I am having is finding a salt that can be mixed and stored without losing it's chemistry. I was using IO for a while but after a few inconsistent batches switched to the HW marine mix reefer.

The main reason for choosing the HW Reefer was that this salt was supposed to be stable when mixed and stored and have a DKH of 8.5-9 which is right were I like to run. My latest batch though is testing at only 6.0 DKH. A quick google search brought up a load of complaints about the quality and consistency of this salt going down over the last year or 2 and people finding the DKH anywere between 6.0 to 7.9 definitely not the 8.5-9.0 advertised.

This brings me to my questions. For those folks out there that are doing AWC what salts are you using? What parameters are you maintaining?, and how long are you able to store that water and keep it stable? I am okay with changing my parameters to match a different salt mix if necessary I just don't want to do it if the mix is inconsistent and won't store well.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Are you relying solely on your waterchanges to maintain the major elements?

I use IO for my awc. But I'm not relying on my new salt mix to match my tanks alk, calc and magnesium levels. I'm mostly relying on my awc for removing accumulated waste. I use other means to keep the parameters where they need to be.

 

[dank.reefer]

I will be dosing to help keep the major elements up. The AWC will be for keeping keeping minor elements stable and minor amounts of nutrient export. I just really need a salt that remains consistent in it's parameters so the dosing can be more accurately maintained.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I submit that you're over thinking it. Regardless of tanks dkh levels. By introducing salt at a slow rate, you will never see your tank rise to those higher levels found in the salt unless your corals aren't keeping up with what's being added.

And if you're supplementing with other means, (2 part, 3 part, kalkwasser, etc) then it doesn't matter the salt you choose because you're going to dial in your dosing based on everything as a whole. It's the constantly changing of salt brands that will get you into trouble because your dosing regiment will be set up for a particular salt mix.

If you're wanting to chase trace elements, awc is going to be of little use as well. You'd be better off doing the ICP analysis and dose the individual traces as needed.

All that aside, I found it odd that you had inconsistent batches of IO. I was always under the impression that IO is one of the best for consistency. But I've never looked too deep into it and have been using it for over 6 years without any issues.

Personally I use it because of the price and because I use it as awc. The high alk isn't an issue. But then again I'm mostly using awc to remove waste. Point being there are far more efficient ways to maintain major and minor elements than through waterchanges.

 

[dank.reefer]

I myself tend to disagree with the thought that WC is an effective means of managing waste and pollution. That has been proven time and again. If you over feed or have an ineffective filter then water changes will eventually fall short. If nutritive pollution was my issue I would simply increase my carbon dosing or light cycle on the refugium. One of the biggest benefits of using a quality salt mix is that these mixes contain trace elements. I have only changed my salt mix once over the course of the last 4 years and I agree that keeping things the same is a good practice. This is why I am asking for peoples opinions on their particular salt of choice and it's consistency of manufacture. If I do make a change I don't ever want to change it again.

Most of the trace elements contained in these mixes cannot be tested for at home. Some are being used up and some are not but I do not like the idea of dosing things at random if you are not regularly testing for them. By changing the water periodically you can make the changes and adjustments in these elements in minute incriments rather in large swings without dosing. Then by making the changes automated to 1-2 gallons a day rather than 15-20g a week you can stabilize the up down of these elements even more.

I agree you can dose these elements in order to accomodate for usage but, to monitor and dose them accurately you will need to send in an ICP test biweekly to monthly and adjust your dosing regularly. This is the whole premis of the Triton and Moonshiners methods. Both of these methods aim for a no water change type of tank/system based on replenishing trace elements by dosing them rather than changing water to maintain them. The bottom line being that the addition of minor trace elements is a neccesity if not changing the water on a regular basis. So just that in and of it's self I feel supports the position that water changes are valuble for more than just pollution control.

I am not trying to chase these elemental imperfections just simply trying to minimize the swings of elements that I cannot test for. I will still send off an ICP every few months just to make sure things are still on track. Unless something is way out of line though there really shouldn't be any need for major adjustment.

 

[thedon986]

I have been using TM Pro Reef for 1gal/day for a month and everything seems fine. I haven’t tested parameters a week after storage etc though.

BRS did some testing of some major brands.

How long can I store saltwater after mixing? | BRStv Investigates

For those reefers mixing small batches of saltwater and using it rather quickly after mixing, worrying about the Alkalinity and Calcium parameters shifting is typically not a concern. A growing number of reefers are mixing large batches of saltwater, less frequently and use

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree you can dose these elements in order to accomodate for usage but, to monitor and dose them accurately you will need to send in an ICP test biweekly to monthly and adjust your dosing regularly. This is the whole premis of the Triton and Moonshiners methods.

One issue is that water changes are unlikely to have too much effect on rapidly depleting ions such as iron and manganese.

Fortunately there is a wide range of acceptability for many trace elements, making products like trace element mixtures a possible way to go.

 

[dank.reefer]

For arguments sake arent these usually present in most 2 part solutuons such as Bionic, Seachem Fusion, or Red Sea Reef Foundation? Thus would frequent water changes not help to keep these elements from getting out of check wether that be getting to high or low?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For arguments sake arent these usually present in most 2 part solutuons such as Bionic, Seachem Fusion, or Red Sea Reef Foundation? Thus would frequent water changes not help to keep these elements from getting out of check wether that be getting to high or low?

ESV B-ionic provides no more trace elements than a super tiny water change each day (in the order of 0.1% changed daily). That’s substantially less than any normal awc scenario. It is not designed to offset any consumption.

I discuss such issues here:

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters By Randy Holmes-Farley This article is intended to help aquarists understand some of the important differences between the great variety of two and three part alkalinity and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[dank.reefer]

ESV B-ionic provides no more trace elements than a super tiny water change each day (in the order of 0.1% changed daily). That’s substantially less than any normal awc scenario. It is not designed to offset any consumption.

I discuss such issues here:

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters By Randy Holmes-Farley This article is intended to help aquarists understand some of the important differences between the great variety of two and three part alkalinity and...

www.reef2reef.com

This is a great article for explaining the basic function of 2 part solutions. I now see why I go through less Part 1 of my Seachem Fusion than Part 2. It makes me wonder if the 2.46/20 ratio would cause an under dosing of the ions contained in the mix since Part 1 is dosed less to maintain balance with Part 2. Seachem does have the ingredients list by volume available on their site and on the side of the jugs as well. However if these quantities are sufficient, lacking or excessive from one tank to another would be difficult to determine without ICP testing I suppose. This is were I figured water changes were helping to balance these ions and pick up some of the slack were the Fusion 2 part may be lacking/exceeding.

As far as AWC goes and the selection of a stable salt mix for storage. I am already doing 10% water changes weekly and would like to automate the process to take the chore off my plate. An added benefit would be that the smaller more frequent changes would cause less fluctuations in parameters when performing the change. I also would like to use a salt that I could just mix a whole box/bucket (140g-200g) every few months and know that it will remain relatively stable during storage. The advantages being that 1) I only have to mix salt water every 3 months or so and 2) mixing the whole batch at once should help to keep the mix more consistant by compensating for possible settling/separation/precipitation of the salt mix during shipping and storage.

Thanks Randy for taking the time to help me understand.

 

[Downfall]

I use Fritz RPM blue box for AWC setup. Mixes quickly and matches the parameters I'd like to run. I usually mix up a batch that lasts roughly ~2 weeks, and it doesn't have any precipitation issues. Keep it in the basement around 60F right now, and closer to 68F in the summer (no heater, only circulation).

Also I can get it shipped to my door on sale for less than $70/box when it's on sale at a popular saltwater online retailer that sells it.