Bacterial Driven System: A Recipe for Success.

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

Yes, without question water from the ocean will aid in increasing your biodiversity in the system by providing it with bacteria and organisms that you just can’t replicate in a barren system. Better yet, and if legal, grab a small live rock and some sand to add to your system.

I spoke about this in another thread, and will repost below:


think that you’re on to something here. One thing that I have noticed over the years is that every single local aquarium that I have given water, to aid in start up, has thrived and avoided many of the issues that plague new setups.

I do dose bacteria, and cycle between MB7 and Zeobak, but my systems have always been stable. Quite a bit of that has to do with my own maintenance and maniacal husbandry, but there is something to be said about quality water directly from the ocean or an established source.

The water currently in use in my systems has been going now for about 25 years, through various setups, from large to small. Even when I took a multi year hiatus from the hobby due to illness, I kept some rock and water going in the hopes of coming back one day.

In the beginning I did experience all manner of algae and issues, but since then every new setup that had rock and water transferred avoided many issues and kept on running as if it was one large chain of a continuous system. Back then, I ordered rock directly from Fiji and it was incredible stuff. Every couple years when I would transfer systems, a couple new pieces of Fiji rock were added to give the system a shot in the arm.

The diversity further increased when I launched Pro Corals and started importing corals from all over. The small rocks attached on corals from Australia were incredible. The PC Superman Acro came in on one of those Aussie shipments.

One thing that I have been playing around with is Zeolites. I shake them off daily via a Zeoreactor and the response of the corals has been incredible. My corals now are growing at a faster pace than I have ever experienced. Everything from SPS, LPS to Zoas is growing at an incredibly well. Its to the point that when my system hits the one year mark this spring, people may doubt the images of growth.

Concerning the disturbing trend of starting fallow systems, I believe that bottled bacteria has its place and will aid in startup, but is not a substitute for the real thing. 9/10 times when someone approaches me with a system issue, provided that all parameters are in check, we solve it by simply adding some real live rock. Now, it’s getting tougher to obtain live rock from the ocean, and I don’t even know if KP Aquatics is still shipping rock, so we need to find some new sources. Starting up a barren system to “avoid pests” is completely misguided and causes so much needless suffering and loss of live stock.

When you get down to the basics, and allow nature to take its course, success is sure to follow. Trust the process and trust in nature.

Now, if anyone would like some water, I’ll be selling it for $19.99!

-Sonny

My fight with dinos was ended by an 8lb chunk of live rock hitchhikers and all.

It seriously made a huge improvement in 2 days, the first time I saw dinos disappear without me manually removing them.

I know its anecdotal, but I will never start another system without real live rock ever again.

The rock I has wasn't dry to start with for me, but it wasn't from the ocean when the person that had it before me had it.

 

[SunnyX]

Updated image from today. Bacteria driven system still going strong. The reef went from frags and small colonies to almost grown out in less than a year.

 

[graziano]

Updated image from today. Bacteria driven system still going strong. The reef went from frags and small colonies to almost grown out in less than a year.

Hello, can you remind me of the dosage of T.M. N-P Bacto Balance in how many liters of your aquarium, thank you

 

[SunnyX]

Hello, can you remind me of the dosage of T.M. N-P Bacto Balance in how many liters of your aquarium, thank you

3ML per day on roughly 680L total volume.

 

[UtahReefer]

Great write up... You are "on the money". Some years back I had a 150g Zeovit System that came down because I moved across country. No doubt about the results. Started up a 45 cube with a sump last November using the Aquaforest System. No major ugly phase, just some light issues with brown algae. I know it's the result of carbon dosing. So many people have had great results with various ways of doing things so they stick to it and that's fine. However, there always seems to be a resistance to bacteria. It's my belief that bacteria / carbon based systems are the future of this hobby, and eventually most will see that the results are undeniable.

 

[SunnyX]

Great write up... You are "on the money". Some years back I had a 150g Zeovit System that came down because I moved across country. No doubt about the results. Started up a 45 cube with a sump last November using the Aquaforest System. No major ugly phase, just some light issues with brown algae. I know it's the result of carbon dosing. So many people have had great results with various ways of doing things so they stick to it and that's fine. However, there always seems to be a resistance to bacteria. It's my belief that bacteria / carbon based systems are the future of this hobby, and eventually most will see that the results are undeniable.

Agreed. I have been preaching the benefits of carbon dosing and bacteria driven systems for almost 20 years now. For coral growth and system health there really is no substitute.

In the past, the greatest issue I dealt with was a lack of nutrients which cause problems with coral color/growth and brought about things such as slime algae. At the time, I was using vodka as a carbon dose. For the past three year I have used Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance and it has been a game changer. For the first time in my reefing career I have no red slime algae and have yet to have a coral lighten up or ****** in growth.

The zeovit reactor and zeolites, with its daily release of bacterial mulm, has given me coral growth that I did not think was possible. I mean, I have an almost fully grown out system in less than a year.

In my opinion and experience, when done correctly, a bacteria driven system has no equal.

-Sonny

 

[jackson6745]

Hello,

No issue dosing bacteria from the start. It is my preferred method as it will allow the bacteria to seed the surfaces before nuisance algae can take hold.

-Sonny

When you were using MB7 did you follow the suggested dosage on the bottle? Just coming back from a 4 year break from the hobby. I always admired your systems.


My last system 115g cube was also very much bacteria driven. I went out of my way to get live rock from all over, dosed various bacterias + carbon sources from prodibio, mb7, microbe-lift, zeovit, vodka vinegar, no pox, and whatever else I felt like dumping in lol. I always dumped in the water from healthy systems into my tank as well. I didn't have issues because the bio load was crazy high. Even with the continuous bacteria/carbon source I had to run ROWA to keep phosphate from spiking, and I relied on bi-mothly water changes to keep nitrates <15ppm. I did notice the fastest growth and the best colors that I ever experienced as well. It's like natural body building vs the Mr. Olympia

Here's a pic from the first couple of months (SPS in right away from another tank)



And here's the tank at the first year mark.

Feeding Time on the Reef

youtube.com

 

[SunnyX]

When you were using MB7 did you follow the suggested dosage on the bottle? Just coming back from a 4 year break from the hobby. I always admired your systems.


My last system 115g cube was also very much bacteria driven. I went out of my way to get live rock from all over, dosed various bacterias + carbon sources from prodibio, mb7, microbe-lift, zeovit, vodka vinegar, no pox, and whatever else I felt like dumping in lol. I always dumped in the water from healthy systems into my tank as well. I didn't have issues because the bio load was crazy high. Even with the continuous bacteria/carbon source I had to run ROWA to keep phosphate from spiking, and I relied on bi-mothly water changes to keep nitrates <15ppm. I did notice the fastest growth and the best colors that I ever experienced as well. It's like natural body building vs the Mr. Olympia

Here's a pic from the first couple of months (SPS in right away from another tank)



And here's the tank at the first year mark.

Feeding Time on the Reef

youtube.com

Great looking setup and welcome back!

Concerning the MB7, I dosed something like 1 drop per 10gl a day. I am now using Zeobak and dosing it twice per week, 6 drops per dose. I was getting a funky brown coating on my surfaces, that didn't look like diatoms, hence the switch in bacteria. I have yet to encounter that same issue and will continue to use Zeobak for the foreseeable future.

I do agree, nothing comes close to the growth you can obtain in a bacteria driven system. Its cost effective, and the corals have a constant supply of food.

-Sonny

 

[jackson6745]

Hey Sunny, I was cleaning up some old fish tank crap and came across a jar of Bacter ae. Not sure if you know what it is. I used it for a bio film in a fresh water shrimp tank a few years back. Curious if you or anyone ever heard of its application in saltwater???

 

[SunnyX]

l. Looking for your support today. I, as well as four other amazing reefers have been selected as finalists to compete against other reefers in a coral grow out competition. I am certain that with my methods and experience, I can come out on top and hopefully help others by demonstrating my actions along the way. I am a big proponent of carbon dosing and the power of bacteria; now's the time to show everyone the coral growth that can be achieved with it.

If you deem my system worthy, please vote for #1 at the link below.

LINK TO VOTE

 

[Bozburn]

Sonny,

Thanks for the long write up about carbon dosing. I think I am going to give it a try, I cannot keep SPS or get my corals to grow to save my life. Started my tank last year and had ich a few months in that wiped out all of my fish. Started back slow after letting the tank sit dormant for 90 days. Now I am 7 months in with having fish back in the tank and am having a huge algae outbreak. Read your insight on live rock and just ordered 10lbs to arrive this week to throw in there since I started without any.

One question I have, is this compatible with the Reef Moonshiners program? Also, what lights do you use and what is your schedule for them?

A little insight on my tank
260 Gal
Nitrates - 12
Phos - .03 (normally sits around .06-.08)
Alk 7.8
Mag 1350
Calcium - 380
Dosing alk, mag and calcium and slowly bringing them up a bit.

 

[schooncw]

Sonny,

Thanks for the long write up about carbon dosing. I think I am going to give it a try, I cannot keep SPS or get my corals to grow to save my life. Started my tank last year and had ich a few months in that wiped out all of my fish. Started back slow after letting the tank sit dormant for 90 days. Now I am 7 months in with having fish back in the tank and am having a huge algae outbreak. Read your insight on live rock and just ordered 10lbs to arrive this week to throw in there since I started without any.

One question I have, is this compatible with the Reef Moonshiners program? Also, what lights do you use and what is your schedule for them?

A little insight on my tank
260 Gal
Nitrates - 12
Phos - .03 (normally sits around .06-.08)
Alk 7.8
Mag 1350
Calcium - 380
Dosing alk, mag and calcium and slowly bringing them up a bit.

I don't think you need to carbon dose, looking at your numbers and don't understand why you would have a bad algae problem. I've been running biopellets for a long time on an LPS/Softie/Fish 120 but my nitrates were off the chart and are now settled at around 25. My PO is still 1.0+ -even w running GFO 24/7-but my rock-lots of it-is 25+ years old. Having said that, my euphyllia thrives and no undesirable algae.

 

[Bozburn]

I don't think you need to carbon dose, looking at your numbers and don't understand why you would have a bad algae problem. I've been running biopellets for a long time on an LPS/Softie/Fish 120 but my nitrates were off the chart and are now settled at around 25. My PO is still 1.0+ -even w running GFO 24/7-but my rock-lots of it-is 25+ years old. Having said that, my euphyllia thrives and no undesirable algae.

I have ordered some live rock, my algae problem is rough right now. Lots of carpet looking algae, doing the coral snow a bit to try and keep as much off as possible. Hopefully the live rock will help with that.

Will start carbon dosing here in a few weeks after the live rock has been in the tank for a little while. This algae is driving me insane.

 

[schooncw]

I have ordered some live rock, my algae problem is rough right now. Lots of carpet looking algae, doing the coral snow a bit to try and keep as much off as possible. Hopefully the live rock will help with that.

Will start carbon dosing here in a few weeks after the live rock has been in the tank for a little while. This algae is driving me insane.

Based on your numbers, not only do you NOT have to carbon dose, if you did, it would actually, be a mistake!

 

[Lebowski_]

@SunnyX just for transparency sake, do you have any sponserships or affiliations with Tropic Marin or other companies?

 

[SunnyX]

@SunnyX just for transparency sake, do you have any sponserships or affiliations with Tropic Marin or other companies?

Hello,

For the record, I do not have sponsorships or affiliations with any person or company. I am thankfully in a position where I do not need to do so. All of the opinions expressed are my own, and free of any and/or all influence.

Although, since I have been using All for Reef now for a number of years I would be ok if Tropic Marin sent me a years supply.

-Sonny

 

[graziano]

Hello,

For the record, I do not have sponsorships or affiliations with any person or company. I am thankfully in a position where I do not need to do so. All of the opinions expressed are my own, and free of any and/or all influence.

Although, since I have been using All for Reef now for a number of years I would be ok if Tropic Marin sent me a years supply.

-Sonny

Hi SunnyX, what do you think about Tropic Marin Reef Snow, if you have used it when is it better to dose it with the lights on or off and every how many days thanks

 

[SunnyX]

Hi SunnyX, what do you think about Tropic Marin Reef Snow, if you have used it when is it better to dose it with the lights on or off and every how many days thanks

Hello, unfortunately I have no experience with that product. Reading about it, the solutions sounds a lot like the DIY Coral Snow that I make. https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/

 

[lubeck]

Hello, unfortunately I have no experience with that product. Reading about it, the solutions sounds a lot like the DIY Coral Snow that I make. https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/

Do you think the coral snow can be equally effective if you don’t run a skimmer? My nano doesn’t run a skimmer and only run a little bit of floss.

 

[legalizedreefer]

Hey Sunny, I’m thinking I might adopt your strategies here simply because adding a layer of complication to this hobby keeps me engaged.

I already run Nyos Zeo in a Nyos Torq reactor. Can I just use that for the time being or is the KZ Zeo with the “mulm” a requirement?

Also, my Nitrates are at about 2.5ppm and my phosphates have never ever shown a reading on my Hanna ULR. I’ve never worried about it because my acros are growing (slowly), my monti’s are all growing like crazy and my stylo as well. Color is all good too.

With my phos being undetectable, should i start with Plus-NP instead of the Bacto balance?