Bacterial Driven System: A Recipe for Success.

[biecacka]

Sunny,
why did you switch from Mb7 to Zeobak? Is Zeoback the only zeo product you use?
so you are carbon dosing zeoback and vodka? Or is that what one could dose?


corey

 

[SunnyX]

Do you think the coral snow can be equally effective if you don’t run a skimmer? My nano doesn’t run a skimmer and only run a little bit of floss.

Hello,

Provided you have a filter sock or mechanical way of filtrating the water, you should be ok. I cant say that it will be better than a skimmer, but it will work.

Hey Sunny, I’m thinking I might adopt your strategies here simply because adding a layer of complication to this hobby keeps me engaged.

I already run Nyos Zeo in a Nyos Torq reactor. Can I just use that for the time being or is the KZ Zeo with the “mulm” a requirement?

Also, my Nitrates are at about 2.5ppm and my phosphates have never ever shown a reading on my Hanna ULR. I’ve never worried about it because my acros are growing (slowly), my monti’s are all growing like crazy and my stylo as well. Color is all good too.

With my phos being undetectable, should i start with Plus-NP instead of the Bacto balance?

Hi! Use the bacteria of your choice, as sometimes it just comes down to what is most adaptable to your system. The reactor, and release of the mulm bacteria is key to the increased growth in my system. The corals feed well off the bacteria, and even better when paired with the coral snow.

Really, the system I employ is simple and doesnt require much in the way of additives.

In your current situation, I would use the NP bacto balance. Don't let a little phosphate scare you. At last check, I was 0.54.

Sunny,
why did you switch from Mb7 to Zeobak? Is Zeoback the only zeo product you use?
so you are carbon dosing zeoback and vodka? Or is that what one could dose?


corey

MB7 worked well in past systems, but in my latest system it gave me a brown film. It could have been one bad bottle, but I switched over to the Zeobak and havn't looked back.

For the Carbon source, I use Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance.

 

[SunnyX]

Well, the system has preformed beyond expectations and grown corals quicker than what I would have imagined.

You can read about the "Bacteria-Powered Reef" in the latest issue of Reef Hobbyist Magazine.

 

[Big E]

"In your current situation, I would use the NP bacto balance. Don't let a little phosphate scare you. At last check, I was 0.54. "

This is what I experienced when I ran Bacto balance for over a year.........phosphates rising. It did do a good job of keeping nitrates stable and it's probably the least expensive product for this next to vinegar.

There are/were certain species of acros I keep that just don't tolerate those levels.

I'm curious why you didn't move to Elimi-NP as per Tropic Marin's directions on using their products? I just used GFO as at the time I didn't understand the other products.

 

[graziano]

"In your current situation, I would use the NP bacto balance. Don't let a little phosphate scare you. At last check, I was 0.54. "

This is what I experienced when I ran Bacto balance for over a year.........phosphates rising. It did do a good job of keeping nitrates stable and it's probably the least expensive product for this next to vinegar.

There are/were certain species of acros I keep that just don't tolerate those levels.

I'm curious why you didn't move to Elimi-NP as per Tropic Marin's directions on using their products? I just used GFO as at the time I didn't understand the other products.

Sorry for the HOT, I read your 3D on your aquarium, I can only compliment you, crazy animals highlighting the use of T5, at the next change I too will opt for 4 blue plus and 4 coral plus in my Giesemann Matrix 8x39

 

[Colt13]

Hey sonny, would you recommend this system for nano tanks? Like 10 gallons? If you would recommend it, is there anything you would do differently (aside from adjusting the levels of the additives) in a nano vs larger tank?

 

[shnapper20]

Yes, without question water from the ocean will aid in increasing your biodiversity in the system by providing it with bacteria and organisms that you just can’t replicate in a barren system. Better yet, and if legal, grab a small live rock and some sand to add to your system.

I spoke about this in another thread, and will repost below:


think that you’re on to something here. One thing that I have noticed over the years is that every single local aquarium that I have given water, to aid in start up, has thrived and avoided many of the issues that plague new setups.

I do dose bacteria, and cycle between MB7 and Zeobak, but my systems have always been stable. Quite a bit of that has to do with my own maintenance and maniacal husbandry, but there is something to be said about quality water directly from the ocean or an established source.

The water currently in use in my systems has been going now for about 25 years, through various setups, from large to small. Even when I took a multi year hiatus from the hobby due to illness, I kept some rock and water going in the hopes of coming back one day.

In the beginning I did experience all manner of algae and issues, but since then every new setup that had rock and water transferred avoided many issues and kept on running as if it was one large chain of a continuous system. Back then, I ordered rock directly from Fiji and it was incredible stuff. Every couple years when I would transfer systems, a couple new pieces of Fiji rock were added to give the system a shot in the arm.

The diversity further increased when I launched Pro Corals and started importing corals from all over. The small rocks attached on corals from Australia were incredible. The PC Superman Acro came in on one of those Aussie shipments.

One thing that I have been playing around with is Zeolites. I shake them off daily via a Zeoreactor and the response of the corals has been incredible. My corals now are growing at a faster pace than I have ever experienced. Everything from SPS, LPS to Zoas is growing at an incredibly well. Its to the point that when my system hits the one year mark this spring, people may doubt the images of growth.

Concerning the disturbing trend of starting fallow systems, I believe that bottled bacteria has its place and will aid in startup, but is not a substitute for the real thing. 9/10 times when someone approaches me with a system issue, provided that all parameters are in check, we solve it by simply adding some real live rock. Now, it’s getting tougher to obtain live rock from the ocean, and I don’t even know if KP Aquatics is still shipping rock, so we need to find some new sources. Starting up a barren system to “avoid pests” is completely misguided and causes so much needless suffering and loss of live stock.

When you get down to the basics, and allow nature to take its course, success is sure to follow. Trust the process and trust in nature.

Now, if anyone would like some water, I’ll be selling it for $19.99!

-Sonny

I started with dry rock and my sps were brown paling and dieing . started using af life source which appears to be mud collected from the ocean, and it was like flicking a switch .All of the sps started coloring up. I've been using your coralsnow technique for about a month now most of the cyno is gone the tank is cleaner and the coals seem happier, about to try carbon dosing. thankyou so much Sonny

 

[shnapper20]

I started with dry rock and my sps were brown paling and dying . started using af life source which appears to be mud collected from the ocean, and it was like flicking a switch .All of the sps started coloring up. I've been using your coral snow technique for about a month now most of the cyno is gone the tank is cleaner and the coals seem happier, about to try carbon dosing. thankyou so much Sonny

 

[Unstoppable algae!]

Beautiful tank, great read/ information.

Carbon dosing to increase bacteria for coral feeding. Do you see any benefit to adding more than 1 bacteria brand to increase strains of bacteria or stick with 1 brand?

Example dose bacto balance daily, maybe add KZ bacteria Monday, micro7 Wednesday, aqua forest bacteria Friday ect?

Wondering if it may help with adding diversity, also bacteria bottles are not terribly expansive.

Thanks!

 

[schooncw]

Really, really excellent information.

 

[schooncw]

I alternate between Fauna Marin Reef Energy and Tropic Marin Elimi NP.

 

[John K]

So what might happen if one were to follow this approach, BUT without adding bacteria in a bottle and just relying on the existing bacteria in the system?

 

[Troylee]

So what might happen if one were to follow this approach, BUT without adding bacteria in a bottle and just relying on the existing bacteria in the system?

Nitrate reduction and heavier skim mate mainly. It will still increase your bacteria population. The way sunny rolls is heavy in and heavy out! Skimmer being the main tool to remove the excess bacteria that the corals didn’t consume so it doesn’t die off and release the no3 and po4 it preyed upon before losing a food source and dying.

 

[John K]

But what does the bottled bacteria actually accomplish?

I am skeptical. I also practice “heavy in, heavy out”, but don’t supplement OC or bacteria. I seem to be seeing similar results. Trying to understand what’s actually different here?

 

[schooncw]

But what does the bottled bacteria actually accomplish?

I am skeptical. I also practice “heavy in, heavy out”, but don’t supplement OC or bacteria. I seem to be seeing similar results. Trying to understand what’s actually different here?

 

[John K]

Not sure the point of sharing this commercial/ video?

Yes all systems are unique
Yes all systems need ca, alk exct
Yes I have heard sales pitches for bacteria in a bottle before
No new info?

I’m still on the same question- what does the bacteria in a bottle actually contribute?

Is it actually needed or even helpful for a “bacteria driven system” (that’s already full of bacteria)?

Perhaps this might work with simply feeding a steady supply of healthy food? “Heavy in, heavy out”, bacteria growth both feeding corals AND out competing less desirable organisms for nutrients.

Why, when OC dosing was most popular were (more or less) half of us combining OC With bottled bacteria, and half only adding OC - yet carbon dosing worked in both scenarios?

 

[John K]

** Sorry, ignore my comments above. Reading this thread more slowly I'm realizing this is the wrong place to explore my questions.

I think we are buying way too many expensive little bottles. I'll move on now....

 

[schooncw]

Not sure the point of sharing this commercial/ video?

Yes all systems are unique
Yes all systems need ca, alk exct
Yes I have heard sales pitches for bacteria in a bottle before
No new info?

I’m still on the same question- what does the bacteria in a bottle actually contribute?

Is it actually needed or even helpful for a “bacteria driven system” (that’s already full of bacteria)?

Perhaps this might work with simply feeding a steady supply of healthy food? “Heavy in, heavy out”, bacteria growth both feeding corals AND out competing less desirable organisms for nutrients.

Why, when OC dosing was most popular were (more or less) half of us combining OC With bottled bacteria, and half only adding OC - yet carbon dosing worked in both scenarios?

You inquired about adding bacteria or not and what bottled bacteria accomplishes. This "commercial" video explains-in his view-why it is beneficial to carbon dose and what the bacteria accomplishes. Did you watch the segment on carbon dosing? It gives good insight to the benefits.

 

[schooncw]

** Sorry, ignore my comments above. Reading this thread more slowly I'm realizing this is the wrong place to explore my questions.

I think we are buying way too many expensive little bottles. I'll move on now....

Perhaps that would indeed, be best for you.

 

[Troylee]

Not sure the point of sharing this commercial/ video?

Yes all systems are unique
Yes all systems need ca, alk exct
Yes I have heard sales pitches for bacteria in a bottle before
No new info?

I’m still on the same question- what does the bacteria in a bottle actually contribute?

Is it actually needed or even helpful for a “bacteria driven system” (that’s already full of bacteria)?

Perhaps this might work with simply feeding a steady supply of healthy food? “Heavy in, heavy out”, bacteria growth both feeding corals AND out competing less desirable organisms for nutrients.

Why, when OC dosing was most popular were (more or less) half of us combining OC With bottled bacteria, and half only adding OC - yet carbon dosing worked in both scenarios?

I’m no scientist so I can’t answer your question with the result you’re looking for.. maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley can? I can say just dosing bac and carbon I’ve gotten a significant reduction in no3 and it keeps my po4 low also.. I have close to 30 fish in my system,7 of them large tangs and I struggle to keep nutrients up with nothing more than a skimmer for filtration.. as for coral growth? Idk I’ve never tried growing coral without it to compare..