Bacterial growth with different carbon sources experiment

[Miami Reef]

I’m doing a little experiment to see what the effects of different carbon sources have on native tank bacteria.

Tagging @taricha :)

I added a small unmeasured amount of vodka (80% proof) , vinegar (5% acidity) , and 100% dextrose (glucose). The amounts were just eye balled. A splash of vodka, a little longer splash of vinegar, a sprinkle of glucose (it coated the bottom of the cup) , and the control.

All cups have been rinsed in tank water a few times prior to filling with water from my reef tank.

Time elapsed: 0 hours

 

[MnFish1]

I’m doing a little experiment to see what the effects of different carbon sources have on native tank bacteria.

Tagging @taricha :)

I added a small unmeasured amount of vodka (80% proof) , vinegar (5% acidity) , and 100% dextrose (glucose). The amounts were just eye balled. A splash of vodka, a little longer splash of vinegar, a sprinkle of glucose (it coated the bottom of the cup) , and the control.

All cups have been rinsed in tank water a few times prior to filling with water from my reef tank.

Time elapsed: 0 hours

Assume that the results you're looking for is 'cloudiness' i.e. a bacterial bloom?

IMHO - You will not be able to make many conclusions from that - since you don't know the concentrations in the liquid. BUT - it brings up an interesting idea - which I might suggest to you.

1. Start with the same shot glasses.
2. In one put plain tank water.
3. In another put 50% vodka 50% tank water
4. In the subsequent ones - dilute each one 1:1 - such that each subsequent glass will have 1/2 the amount of vodka than the previous one. I would suggest that the last one - contain 1/2 - 1/4 the amount of vodka recommended for dosing in a tank.

Then take a shot of vodka for yourself:). You can also repeat this with vinegar, glucose, etc. You are going to have to figure out a way to measure whatever your endpoint is going to be - i.e. is it turbidity, etc etc.

If you want to test the affects of various chemicals on tank water, you need to KNOW the amounts, - i.e. a splash of this and a dash of that - I'm not sure is going to give you results you can interpret.

Best wishes with the experiment. What is your thesis - up front - and what do you expect from the results?

 

[Miami Reef]

Assume that the results you're looking for is 'cloudiness' i.e. a bacterial bloom?

IMHO - You will not be able to make many conclusions from that - since you don't know the concentrations in the liquid. BUT - it brings up an interesting idea - which I might suggest to you.

1. Start with the same shot glasses.
2. In one put plain tank water.
3. In another put 50% vodka 50% tank water
4. In the subsequent ones - dilute each one 1:1 - such that each subsequent glass will have 1/2 the amount of vodka than the previous one. I would suggest that the last one - contain 1/2 - 1/4 the amount of vodka recommended for dosing in a tank.

Then take a shot of vodka for yourself:). You can also repeat this with vinegar, glucose, etc. You are going to have to figure out a way to measure whatever your endpoint is going to be - i.e. is it turbidity, etc etc.

If you want to test the affects of various chemicals on tank water, you need to KNOW the amounts, - i.e. a splash of this and a dash of that - I'm not sure is going to give you results you can interpret.

Best wishes with the experiment. What is your thesis - up front - and what do you expect from the results?

I want the see the types of bacteria that dominate when different types of carbon sources are present. I remember Taricha saying how different types of carbon sources had pretty noticeable differences in the bacteria that grew.

 

[Miami Reef]

I also want to see if the assertion that sugar tends to grow more types of benthic bacteria will happen in a clean glass cup in comparison to vodka and vinegar.

If you know how much amounts of carbon I should dose in each cup, let me know. I can measure and redo it.

Vodka and vinegar is pretty easy: dose 8 times as much vinegar than vodka will result in equal amounts of carbon.

Not sure how much of the glucose is needed to be equal.

 

[MnFish1]

I want the see the types of bacteria that dominate when different types of carbon sources are present. I remember Taricha saying how different types of carbon sources had pretty noticeable differences in the bacteria that grew.

Thanks - how will. you determine which types of bacteria dominate? I was wondering if you might be planning to do something with @AquaBiomics

 

[MnFish1]

I also want to see if the assertion that sugar tends to grow more types of benthic bacteria will happen in a clean glass cup in comparison to vodka and vinegar.

If you know how much amounts of carbon I should dose in each cup, let me know. I can measure and redo it.

Vodka and vinegar is pretty easy: dose 8 times as much vinegar than vodka will result in equal amounts of carbon.

Not sure how much of the glucose is needed to be equal.

There are multiple protocols for vodka, vinegar and I believe glucose dosing on the site. If I were comparing different chemicals (as you are) - I would just add the amount to each glass - to equal the recommended dose. The issue I see with the way you started out - is that it's totally random dosing.

For example - at low concentrations - glucose is used as a fuel for bacteria. at high concentrations - glucose inhibits bacteria (i.e. honey) - same with vinegar and vodka. Hope this helps

 

[Miami Reef]

Thanks - how will. you determine which types of bacteria dominate? I was wondering if you might be planning to do something with @AquaBiomics

I was just looking for visual clues. Nothing heavily scientific as of right now. This is mainly to satisfy my curiosity because dosing glucose seems to be working very well in combating dinoflagellates. Glucose seems to encourage benthic bacteria, and this may outcompete nuisance algaes.

It may potentially allow us to have better success with certain starfish. I’m interesting in experimenting to see if dosing glucose long term can have a positive effect on a tank.

 

[Miami Reef]

And I will do the equal amounts of each carbon source, I will report back.

 

[MnFish1]

I was just looking for visual clues. Nothing heavily scientific as of right now. This is mainly to satisfy my curiosity because dosing glucose seems to be working very well in combating dinoflagellates. Glucose seems to encourage benthic bacteria, and this may outcompete nuisance algaes.

It may potentially allow us to have better success with certain starfish. I’m interesting in experimenting to see if dosing glucose long term can have a positive effect on a tank.

Great - and you know - I wasn't criticizing you:). Just commenting. I was quite interested in your main thesis (i.e. what was the goal) - and how you were going to measure the goal. Here is my guess. The glucose will have the most bacteria. The Vinegar and vodka a toss up - BUT - the vial with the most vodka will have less bacteria (depending on how much you put in LOL) than the lesser one. It will be interesting to see

 

[taricha]

@Miami Reef once you get your feet wet with this, I'll try to talk you into making this a bigger project that produces a lot more info. :p

I think it's something that people would find interesting.
But your question elsewhere about equal carbon calculations is the right direction to go.

 

[taricha]

oh, in your test in post 1, I think the vinegar one won't grow (or will be very much delayed) and the others will.
Just a guess.

 

[Miami Reef]

oh, in your test in post 1, I think the vinegar one won't grow (or will be very much delayed) and the others will.
Just a guess.

I can’t wait to hear your proposal on another experiment once I get my feet wet with this one. :D

 

[bud_rick]

Do you plan on finishing this experiment with any tests proving different carbon sources accel at growing different types of bacteria?

 

[J1a]

This is very interesting!

Having some ways to standardize the amount of organic carbon added is definitely a good modification. If @Miami Reef intend only to qualitatively observe the type of bacteria growth, then the concentration may be less critical.

A few possible extension to this could be:
1. Bacteria growth profile under oxygen rich (aerated) and anaerobic (stagnant) conditions
2. Bacteria growth dynamics (rate of growth, lag time etc) using oxygen concentration as proxy measurement
3. Nitrate and phosphate consumption
4. Carbon dosing dynamics in detritus rich environment.

 

[Miami Reef]

I didn’t continue the experiment in public because of a few reasons.

However, I did decide to play around with carbon dosing a 20 gallon tank with only hair algae (no other organisms) for my own enjoyment.

I used very high doses of glucose, then vodka, then vinegar. I had a HOB filter and a Powerhead with strong surface aeration.

The algae grew from the heater light and the natural light from the windows. The hair algae turned white and died after overdosing glucose.

I didn’t document anything because I honestly wanted to have fun without following any rules.

I’ll leave the technical science stuff to the more intelligent people.

 

[bud_rick]

Part of me wants to continue this and do four tests to see if the carbon sources do in fact grow different bacteria better than the others or grow the same bacteria at different rates. I'd imagine I could do it in mason jars with an air stone probably? I might have to order up four tests from @AquaBiomics.

Test one being the tank water before carbon dosing. The other three would be after a week or two of carbon dosing with vodka, vinegar and sugar. Maybe replacing sugar with nopox since sugar is probably the least popular of the three.

If I were to do the test I would probably wait a couple weeks so I can discontinue dosing nopox in my tank before I take the test water out.

 

[AngryInch]

Any results?