Bacterial Infection in QT

[Reefer1978]

My QT tank is on day 16 of copper. Had a few losses (pintail wrasse with visible bacterial infection on the body that was caught too late), Gobbie that I found dead one morning. Red-tail trigger is doing good, but has some white spots on fins, I am suspecting a bacterial infection. I know from the picture it looks like ich, but it's hard to tell from the pic, in real life it does not look like ich at all.

My question is on recommended antibiotic treatment for the QT tank. I have Metroplex and Kanaplex on hand. Can I use both of them, should I get something else? In a similar other trigger thread (same symptoms) Neoplex was recommended, but I am unsure if I can source it today.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My QT tank is on day 16 of copper. Had a few losses (pintail wrasse with visible bacterial infection on the body that was caught too late), Gobbie that I found dead one morning. Red-tail trigger is doing good, but has some white spots on fins, I am suspecting a bacterial infection. I know from the picture it looks like ich, but it's hard to tell from the pic, in real life it does not look like ich at all.

My question is on recommended antibiotic treatment for the QT tank. I have Metroplex and Kanaplex on hand. Can I use both of them, should I get something else? In a similar other trigger thread (same symptoms) Neoplex was recommended, but I am unsure if I can source it today.

Kanaplex but do not mix them

 

[Reefer1978]

Kanaplex but do not mix them

Could you please share more? I was reading a lot last night and saw Metro + Furan 2 + Kana was the magic formula. Maybe that was back in the day?

 

[MnFish1]

If you need an antibiotic - kanamycin would be preferred. Generally speaking - it's best not to add an antibiotic - with copper, however, copper can be immunosuppressive - and waiting 30 days without treating a bacterial infection is not a good idea. The 2 treatments can be used in combination - however watch very carefully for any change in symptoms. I would not consider using kanaplex and metroplex with copper.

All of that said, it seems like you have multiple fish deaths - are your parameters ok? Some fish do not tolerate copper as well as others - are your levels consistently good? Ammonia, etc? Sometimes fish with a disease - like velvet, may die after transport - without many symptoms except heavy breathing - have you seen anything like that - or other symptoms? Hope this helps

 

[Reefer1978]

If you need an antibiotic - kanamycin would be preferred. Generally speaking - it's best not to add an antibiotic - with copper, however, copper can be immunosuppressive - and waiting 30 days without treating a bacterial infection is not a good idea. The 2 treatments can be used in combination - however watch very carefully for any change in symptoms. I would not consider using kanaplex and metroplex with copper.

All of that said, it seems like you have multiple fish deaths - are your parameters ok? Some fish do not tolerate copper as well as others - are your levels consistently good? Ammonia, etc? Sometimes fish with a disease - like velvet, may die after transport - without many symptoms except heavy breathing - have you seen anything like that - or other symptoms? Hope this helps

I am staying on top of ammonia (it's a mature QT tank, I did not observe an increase in level with this QT run) and copper is tested every 2 days, went to 2.52 temporarily, I fixed it with a small QC. Nitrate does get higher as there's no skimmer on the tank, but I usually run 30-day copper cycle and then jump to 50% WC.

No Velvet / Ich observed. No heavy breathing as I picked them up personally, they went from Copper > bag for a 1 hour drive > my tank with copper.

Only thing I observed is the bacterial infection, specifically for fish that hide under rocks (I do have rocks and sand in QT, I found it works better and doesn't stress fish out so much), but I can always adjust that in the next QT run. Every time I have triggers tho, I do see these "bacterial-like" spots on FINs, and I am trying to ensure it doesn't get very bad while in QT.

 

[MnFish1]

To me those 'spots' in the picture - do not exactly look like a bacterial issue. In other words, I'm not sure that the fish deaths you've had relate to the spots on the trigger. I would definitely continue the copper therapy.

 

[Reefer1978]

To me those 'spots' in the picture - do not exactly look like a bacterial issue. In other words, I'm not sure that the fish deaths you've had relate to the spots on the trigger. I would definitely continue the copper therapy.

What else could it be? It's very similar to this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w... is commonly caused by,likely to be an injury.

 

[MnFish1]

What else could it be? It's very similar to this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/white-patches-on-fins-of-trigger.942186/#:~:text=That is commonly caused by,likely to be an injury.

I think it is the same (or close) to the other thread - but - the lesions on your fish may heal on their own (they are not as bad IMHO to the other thread). However, I meant to mention, that monitoring the lesions would be the way I would go - if they progress at all - I would use the kanamycin (with the copper)

 

[MnFish1]

What else could it be? It's very similar to this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/white-patches-on-fins-of-trigger.942186/#:~:text=That is commonly caused by,likely to be an injury.

PS - the main point with regards to your question was not that the lesions on your trigger were due to injury/transport, etc - it was that I don't think that a bacterial infection caused the deaths of your other fish - which is why I think its important to continue your copper. If you end up needing an antibiotic - it's ok to use kanamycin with copper, and since you have it (and assuming it's not expired) - it's ok to use.

 

[Reefer1978]

PS - the main point with regards to your question was not that the lesions on your trigger were due to injury/transport, etc - it was that I don't think that a bacterial infection caused the deaths of your other fish - which is why I think its important to continue your copper. If you end up needing an antibiotic - it's ok to use kanamycin with copper, and since you have it (and assuming it's not expired) - it's ok to use.

Thank you @MnFish1 I am going to treat the tank as the second inhabitant now looks to have an infected eye (looks like pop-eye but is also cloudy). Quick question for you, how to you measure a spoon? is it flat, or with a hill? Can't find any instructions on that at all, and don't want to over-dose. By weight of course would be much better but I don't have a precise enough scale.

 

[Reefer1978]

Small update, flukes confirmed via 4-minute FW dip. Here's a crappy cell phone pic from the microscope:

 

[Spare time]

Small update, flukes confirmed via 4-minute FW dip. Here's a crappy cell phone pic from the microscope:

I personally have mixed prazi with copper power and had no issues but others may disagree.

 

[Reefer1978]

Would anyone know how long it takes for the eye to heal? it looks worse than earlier in the day.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you @MnFish1 I am going to treat the tank as the second inhabitant now looks to have an infected eye (looks like pop-eye but is also cloudy). Quick question for you, how to you measure a spoon? is it flat, or with a hill? Can't find any instructions on that at all, and don't want to over-dose. By weight of course would be much better but I don't have a precise enough scale.

Good question - I would assume flat.

 

[Spare time]

Small update, flukes confirmed via 4-minute FW dip. Here's a crappy cell phone pic from the microscope:

Also, that is a great picture.

 

[MnFish1]

Always good to hear followup. Are you planning to treat the tank with Prazipro?

 

[Reefer1978]

Always good to hear followup. Are you planning to treat the tank with Prazipro?

I would actually like to treat with praziquantel powder so I can use it while undergoing copper treatment, and not worry about bacterial bloom that usually comes with prazipro. I have a magnetic stirer, so I hope dilution is not an issue. @MnFish1 would you happen to have an opinion on Aqua Meds Aqua-Prazi from Amazon?

 

[MnFish1]

I would actually like to treat with praziquantel powder so I can use it while undergoing copper treatment, and not worry about bacterial bloom that usually comes with prazipro. I have a magnetic stirer, so I hope dilution is not an issue. @MnFish1 would you happen to have an opinion on Aqua Meds Aqua-Prazi from Amazon?

I do not have an opinion one way over the other. I hope things stabilize.

 

[Reefer1978]

Here's my plan. Today is day 18 of Copper. I have Praziquantel powder coming in today.
5/3 (Day 18) I am dosing Prazi
5/5 (Day 20) I am doing Kanaplex
5/7 (Day 22) second dose of Kanaplex
5/9 (Day 24) third and final dose of Kanaplex
5/11 (Day 26) second dose of Prazi
5/17 transfer to DT assuming all is well

 

[MnFish1]

Here's my plan. Today is day 18 of Copper. I have Praziquantel powder coming in today.
5/3 (Day 18) I am dosing Prazi
5/5 (Day 20) I am doing Kanaplex
5/7 (Day 22) second dose of Kanaplex
5/9 (Day 24) third and final dose of Kanaplex
5/11 (Day 26) second dose of Prazi
5/17 transfer to DT assuming all is well

That looks like the right protocol. Make sure you increase aeration and follow ammonia closely