Bacterial Infections, STN

Discussion in 'General SPS Discussion' started by Mattrg02, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. gdemos

    gdemos Well-Known Member

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    I would not hesitate to dose MB7 or others like Aquavitro Remediation as part of a routine husbandry/regimen... you may struggle to find documented studies that this approach (call it good bacteria vs. bad bacteria) is effective on battling vibrio xx. You'll likely find more documentation on temperature, cyanide, run-off, acidity, etc. as the 'cause' of vibrio infection. none of us are purposely adding road run-off, raising tank temp, or otherwise poisoning our systems.... but we are harboring animals subject to stresses and subject to bacterial infections, we are potentially adding things to our systems (think "dirty" hands, infected corals, infected fish, infected frag plugs, arragonite, media)... all of which contribute to the possibility of bacterial infection.

    So IMO (and this is what I do) why not go the bio-augmentation route? why note dose nitrifying bacteria, why not hit with strong UV after a while? i believe in this and the deplete/replenish approach; i.e., heavy Import, heavy Export of nutrients (feed heavy, skim heavy, water change, etc.) all this, and when you have a dying coral... prune it, remove it, do a big water change, then supplement. if you can accomplish this while keeping all else stable, i believe you are doing a beneficial thing.

    -Greg
     

  2. Flippers4pups

    Flippers4pups Fins up since 1993 R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

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  3. cilyjr

    cilyjr Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much all hetrotrophic bacteria will use nitrate, V. shiloi absolutely will.

    V. shiloi yields positive catalase and oxidase testing, reduces nitrate to nitite, is a facultative aerobe, and is capable of acidic fermentation(1).

    I think pretty much all of the Vibrionaceae are hetrotrophic. And gram-negative. Gram-negative bacteria is good at resisting antibiotics.

    Let's pretend for fun that there is going to be some different Vibrio bacteria in all systems (which I personally believe) and always be. Maybe an organism has a certain resistance to bacterial infection. No perhaps the organism has some stress inducing factor (temp, or alk swing come to mind) and is now dealing with that. The bacteria may have an opportunity to gain a foothold on the organism and after a few weeks some signs of white band disease (STN) show.

    The OPs theory of out competing bacteria makes sense in this scenario and there are bacteria that will actively attack and kill other bacteria
    Bdellovibrio has been observed to be predatory on some vibrio strains. Other hetrotrophs might just out compete



    (1)Kushmaro A., Banin E., Loya Y., Stackebrandt E. and E. Rosenberg. 2001. Vibrio shiloi sp. nov., the causative agent of bleaching of the coral Oculina patagonica. International Journal of Systematic and Evolutionary Microbiology [Internet]
     
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  4. cilyjr

    cilyjr Well-Known Member

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    I dose a few different strains of bacteria for this reason. I also drop a few drops of iodine from time to time not because some people say that certain inverts require a small amount but rather because of its antiseptic qualities. This works for me it's all anecdotal obviously but it keeps my reef happy and me doing something
     
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  5. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Photo of the Month Award

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    Good points. I concur on all of them. But it does go into the other conversation eluded to.
    IMO , it's not just nitrifying bacteria we are trying to cultivate when bio diversity and competition are called into question.

    Ie , I know a lot things that eat bacteria.
     
  6. gdemos

    gdemos Well-Known Member

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    no doubt that a 'bacterial balance' or quasi biological balance is critical to long-term success and should be included in the topic of "keeping things stable"

    like @cilyjr , i also like lugols dose, bacterial dose, keeping flow, lots of flow random and heavy (I also like turkey basting), keeping detritus low especially any that settles on acro, grazing fish - grazing inverts, sponges (naturally growing filter feeders)

    I liked Dr. Forest's overview and lecture, while i may not run out and dose an antibiotic or get a clam...this is a very worthy consideration (i also like the reference to tide <flow, water change>)his insight in real world knowledge transcending to hobbyists is fantastic.
     
  7. Mattrg02

    Mattrg02 Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be mb7 under a Tunze name, no?

    For what it’s worth, I just dosed some mb7. First off, my nitrates dropped in half overnight. Didn’t think this mb7 could do that so quickly.
     
  8. cilyjr

    cilyjr Well-Known Member

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  9. Second Shot

    Second Shot Well-Known Member

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    It’s a powder so I wouldn’t think so.
     
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