Bad DI Resin?

[Eldredge]

I am having a problem with the Bulk Reef Supply Pro DI Resin - the Anion in particular. I have been using the Pro series for a while. I have always used more of the mixed bed than I anticipated, and I suspect that the Anion Resin may be defective - it seems to leach something into the finished water. I will do some more investigating, but just wanted to give everyone a "heads up", and see if anyone has any thoughts about what is happening with my system.

My source water is well water and runs about 200 TDS. After the RO membrane (75 GPD), it is about 6-10 TDS. After the DI, I keep it at 0. I recently moved my RODI system and when I did, I noticed the bad odor that the anion resin makes, so I checked my finished water TDS and it was elevated (I don't remember the reading, but it was high - in the 20s I think). None of the cartridges were exhausted, so I called BRS. I was told that there was probably some channelling, so i tossed the DI Resin even though it wasn't exhausted and ordered some new Anion resin. Everything seemed to get back to normal more or less.

My production rate was decreasing, so I ordered new filters (1 micron sediment and carbon block) and a new RO membrane (75GPD) from BRS. I installed the new filters and flushed the new filters and membrane. I flushed the filters first, then ran the membrane for a couple of hours, flushed it and let it sit overnight, ran it for a couple of hours, flushed it and let it sit for a day, ran it for a couple of more hours, flushed it and let it sit overnight, then flushed it and ran it for a bit again. At this point, I started running it into the DI resin and was planning on collecting the finished water for use. i noticed the smell of the Anion resin, so I feared that I had a problem again.

I checked my source water - it was clear and no smell 200 TDS. I checked the water coming out of the RO - clear and no smell 8 TDS. I checked the water coming out of the Cat Ion (cartridge has made several hundred gallons and not much color change) - clear and no smell 6 TDS. Checked the water coming out of the Anion (cartridge has made about 100 gallons and is half exhausted according to the color) - clear smelled like Anion and TDS around 100. I let it run for a bit and the TDS dropped into the 20s and the smell stopped. This seemed like a problem, so I called BRS.

I explained the situation to the person I spoke with, and she once again said that it must be channeling and that it is normal for the TDS to increase between the resins. I went into detail and explained that i thought there must be something wrong with the resin, but she insisted that everything sounded normal and as long as my final mixed bed got the TDS down to 0, there wasn't a problem. Her only suggestion was to throw out the Anion resin (again) and replace it with new. We spoke for a while, and I ended the conversation quite disappointed.

I recently did an ICP of my RODI, and the only element that was elevated was Bromine if I remember correctly - I can't access the results right now.

Sorry for the long post, but I am hoping that someone can tell me if this really is normal, and/or give me some suggestions. At this point, I am considering skipping the Anion or trying to find a supplier that has some that doesn't leach. I will probably replace the Anion resin and experiment to see if I use more or less mixed bed with or without the Anion, but this will take a while and waste some more money. Thanks for any help.

 

[Eldredge]

Okay, my memory wasn't very good. Here are the ICP results of the RODI:

 

[cmoore806]

Is the smell the sulfur?

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

Hey @Eldredge ,
The strong smell from the Anion resin is indeed normal. For lack of a better way to describe the smell, it's almost an ammonia like smell. The only place that you shouldn't see a decrease in TDS is after the cation resin, but before the anion. This is because the water is exchanging contaminants based on electrical charge, but not necessarily removing them. In fact, it's normal to see the TDS go up between these two DI stages, so we don't install a TDS meter in that location on our BRS systems as the information is pretty useless.

After the anion resin, however, your TDS should be at or near 0. If you're seeing a big jump in TDS after the anion resin, this is not normal. One thing that I'll suggest checking first is that the refillable cartridge isn't in upside down. If it is, increases in TDS (and general bad performance) are to be expected. The refillable cartridge has an arrow on it that should be pointing up so that the cap is on the bottom and the gasket is on the top (If the cartridge is from BRS).

 

[Riphter]

I definitely get a smell for the first few minutes of production. I also use separate anion/cation canisters. When I first turn it on my tds after the di is usually 4 or less. After the smell goes away it is always at 0. Cation goes before anion, I mixed them up once a while back. Everything is from BRS.

 

[JMM744]

I installed my canister upside down once. Sure didn’t work too well.

 

[Eldredge]

I definitely get a smell for the first few minutes of production. I also use separate anion/cation canisters. When I first turn it on my tds after the di is usually 4 or less. After the smell goes away it is always at 0. Cation goes before anion, I mixed them up once a while back. Everything is from BRS.

Thanks for the input. Do you find that you use less of the mix bed resin now than when you didn’t use the cation and anion? Do you discard the stinky water or use it? It’s hard for me to understand how the anion is useful if it increases TDS and makes the water stink. I didn’t track my resin usage closely before I started using the pro resin, so I don’t know if I’m actually gaining anything with the pro resin or not. I’m wondering if I’m losing ground...

Edit:
I didn't see the post from BRS when I replied to this post. Apparently it is NOT normal for the TDS to go up after the Anion resin.

 

[Eldredge]

Hey @Eldredge ,
The strong smell from the Anion resin is indeed normal. For lack of a better way to describe the smell, it's almost a cat pee like smell. The only place that you shouldn't see a decrease in TDS is after the cation resin, but before the anion. This is because the water is exchanging contaminants based on electrical charge, but not necessarily removing them. In fact, it's normal to see the TDS go up between these two DI stages, so we don't install a TDS meter in that location on our BRS systems as the information is pretty useless.

After the anion resin, however, your TDS should be at or near 0. If you're seeing a big jump in TDS after the anion resin, this is not normal. One thing that I'll suggest checking first is that the refillable cartridge isn't in upside down. If it is, increases in TDS (and general bad performance) are to be expected. The refillable cartridge has an arrow on it that should be pointing up so that the cap is on the bottom and the gasket is on the top (If the cartridge is from BRS).

Thank you for the reply. Your response makes a lot more sense than what the person on the phone told me. I double checked the cartridge, and it is installed properly. I double checked the TDS too. It was still about 8 coming out of the RO, and 23 coming out of the Anion. I have a new bag of the Pro Anion, so I am going to replace it and hope that the new resin is from a different lot and isn't defective. It's pretty frustrating to keep replacing resin.

Is it normal for the smell to make it past the mixed-bed resin? Should the water with the odor be discarded, or is it okay?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Eldredge]

Is the smell the sulfur?

I'm not sure, but it smells pretty bad. BRS described it as the smell of cat pee, and I would say that is pretty accurate. It seems to be unique to the Anion. I haven't noticed it with the Cation or Mixed Bed resin.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

The anion resin does shrink quite badly over time, which absolutely does lead to chanelling and fluidizing. Be careful filling the cartridge and save the unused portion by re-sealing the bag. As soon as you see the anion resin fluidizing or sinking down after you turn off the water, you need to re-pack it with some fresh anion resin.

I run 4 DI stages primarily to counter this effect. I run one cation, two anion, and a final mixed bed.

 

[Riphter]

You do have to pack it really tight. I Do about 1/8 and tap it against the table a bunch of times. Just do that till it’s full. I only leave a 1/4 inch or less at the top and use the foam to push it down even more.

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

Thank you for the reply. Your response makes a lot more sense than what the person on the phone told me. I double checked the cartridge, and it is installed properly. I double checked the TDS too. It was still about 8 coming out of the RO, and 23 coming out of the Anion. I have a new bag of the Pro Anion, so I am going to replace it and hope that the new resin is from a different lot and isn't defective. It's pretty frustrating to keep replacing resin.

Is it normal for the smell to make it past the mixed-bed resin? Should the water with the odor be discarded, or is it okay?

Thanks for your help.

Let us know if replacing the resin works for you. You can discard the water after replacing the resin if it gives you peace of mind, but shouldn't be necessary to flush the DI resin. If replacing the resin does work, I'd be happy to get you a refund for the wasted resin. Feel free to shoot us a PM in that case, but we'll cross that bridge once we get there.

Edit: That's correct that the potent smell is specific to the Anion resin.

 

[Eldredge]

The anion resin does shrink quite badly over time, which absolutely does lead to chanelling and fluidizing. Be careful filling the cartridge and save the unused portion by re-sealing the bag. As soon as you see the anion resin fluidizing or sinking down after you turn off the water, you need to re-pack it with some fresh anion resin.

I run 4 DI stages primarily to counter this effect. I run one cation, two anion, and a final mixed bed.

Thanks for the input. That seems like good advice. I always pack very tightly, and in this case, the resin was pretty fresh and less than 1/2 consumed according to the color. It didn't show any signs of fluidization or channeling.

 

[Eldredge]

You do have to pack it really tight. I Do about 1/8 and tap it against the table a bunch of times. Just do that till it’s full. I only leave a 1/4 inch or less at the top and use the foam to push it down even more.

Yes. I do the same. In fact, I always over-fill in the end and screw the end on to force the last little bit.

 

[Eldredge]

Let us know if replacing the resin works for you. You can discard the water after replacing the resin if it gives you peace of mind, but shouldn't be necessary to flush the DI resin. If replacing the resin does work, I'd be happy to get you a refund for the wasted resin. Feel free to shoot us a PM in that case, but we'll cross that bridge once we get there.

Edit: That's correct that the potent smell is specific to the Anion resin.

Thanks. I will let you know how it works out. Will be a bit before I have time to deal with it...

 

[Rick.45cal]

Just some food for thought, I have had a refillable resin cartridge that appeared normal looking but was damaged in some way that it caused significant channelling in the resin. It made only about 1/3rd the water it should before it passed TDS through it, when I would replace the resin only about half of it would be exhausted in appearance. It took me quite awhile to figure out that I needed to replace the refillable cartridge to fix the problem. It might be worth a shot at trying a new refillable cartridge and see if the channelling is eliminated. .

 

[Eldredge]

Just some food for thought, I have had a refillable resin cartridge that appeared normal looking but was damaged in some way that it caused significant channelling in the resin. It made only about 1/3rd the water it should before it passed TDS through it, when I would replace the resin only about half of it would be exhausted in appearance. It took me quite awhile to figure out that I needed to replace the refillable cartridge to fix the problem. It might be worth a shot at trying a new refillable cartridge and see if the channelling is eliminated. .

Thanks for the tip. I don't see any signs of channeling. How did you know yours was channeling? Could you see the channels? The other strange thing is that the TDS actually increases as it passes through the Anion. I could understand it not decreasing if the resin was exhausted, or there was channeling, but it doesn't seem like it should increase. Did your TDS increase or just not decrease when you were having problems?

 

[Rick.45cal]

Thanks for the tip. I don't see any signs of channeling. How did you know yours was channeling? Could you see the channels? The other strange thing is that the TDS actually increases as it passes through the Anion. I could understand it not decreasing if the resin was exhausted, or there was channeling, but it doesn't seem like it should increase. Did your TDS increase or just not decrease when you were having problems?

I’ve only used mixed beds so I haven’t encountered your predicament. I couldn’t see the channeling because I packed the cartridge tightly but it was definitely happening, I could tell by large areas of the resin being the unchanged color. Not sure why it was occurring but it only ever occurred with that one cartridge.

 

[CoralClasher]

Thanks for the tip. I don't see any signs of channeling. How did you know yours was channeling? Could you see the channels? The other strange thing is that the TDS actually increases as it passes through the Anion. I could understand it not decreasing if the resin was exhausted, or there was channeling, but it doesn't seem like it should increase. Did your TDS increase or just not decrease when you were having problems?

Did you ever resolve this issue? I’m having a similar problem. I recently added the two single bed resin to my system and I’m getting more tds than just one mixed bed. I’m not thinking I got bad resin maybe a lot of something in my water is getting past the RO membranes and I need another mixed bed added on? TDS after RO is 3, after first DI 22, after the last Mixed bed DI 8.

 

[Eldredge]

Did you ever resolve this issue? I’m having a similar problem. I recently added the two single bed resin to my system and I’m getting more tds than just one mixed bed. I’m not thinking I got bad resin maybe a lot of something in my water is getting past the RO membranes and I need another mixed bed added on? TDS after RO is 3, after first DI 22, after the last Mixed bed DI 8.

It sounds like you might be having a different issue - my TDS was 0 after the mixed bed. I have never had anything other than zero TDS after a mixed bed that was not exhausted. Is your mixed bed fresh and packed tightly?

I hope my issue is resolved, but I don't know yet. I was going to wait until I knew the outcome to update this thread, but here is what I know for now:

I replaced the anion resin with a new bag of resin that I just opened. I was very careful to make sure that it was very tightly packed. I let it flush for several minutes and then checked the TDS. It was 54. I continued to let it flush, and the TDS gradually dropped until it was 18. It stayed at 18 for an hour, so I assumed that it was not going to get any lower. i checked the water coming from the RO, and it was 8. It was the same coming out of the cation. It was 0 coming out of the mixed bed.

BRS tested some of their Resin, but were unable to duplicate my problem. Apparently they have not used lot numbers in the past, so no way to know if it is the same. They gave me a credit for the two bags I had trouble with, and I purchased some more anion resin. I will be replacing it and seeing what the results are - hopefully good. It will be a bit before I get this done, but I will post an update.

Good luck to you.